Author Topic: Cammer Books  (Read 9299 times)

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Kerry j

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Cammer Books
« on: April 04, 2012, 01:23:57 PM »
Mostly because of Jay's excellent thread on his 519" cammer build, I've been looking for reading material on the 427 SOHC and so far this is the only thing I've found:

 http://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Blown-Alcohol-Engines/dp/055779529X/ref=cm_sw_em_r_asp_Kw6TD.1WN5CDG_tt

It's not the Ford shop manual, but it looks like it would have some good information about how to build one of these nasty beasts.

jayb

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2012, 04:55:08 PM »
That looks like a cool book, I was not aware it even existed.  I think I'll order a copy...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2012, 07:49:21 PM »
Hmmm, I just noticed that the book is published by Lulu.  That is not a good sign that it is a real serious work.  In the publishing business Lulu is what is referred to as a "vanity press", meaning that authors can get their book published and order a small number of copies, but there is not necessarily any editing, fact checking, critical review, etc.  It could be a good book, but not all the books that go through a publisher like Lulu are quality works. 

Anybody out there already have a copy of this book?  Is it any good?
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Kerry j

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2012, 08:00:15 PM »
I didn't know that about Lulu; I just looked through the pages in the "see what's inside" feature and it looked interesting, so I bought one. If you want to wait until I get mine, I can let you know what it's like.

jayb

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2012, 08:32:56 PM »
That would be great Kerry, thanks.  I bought a CNC book a few years ago published by an author through Lulu that was truly awful, so I'm a little gun shy on their books.  Although they do the FE Forum calendar every year, which is very good, and probably other publications as well.  There's just not as much control and professionalism there; it is pretty much all left up to the author, and some of us authors are real hacks  :D
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

drdano

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2012, 09:17:42 PM »
Not to hijack this post.  http://racedyne.com/ shop is mentioned in the first page of text.  There is a pretty wild looking belt-driven cammer in their gallery section I'd like to see more of...love it.  Needs a belt-drive supercharger and maybe a serpentine accessory belt drive to really make you lose your mind.   ;D

jayb

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2012, 09:56:05 PM »
If memory serves, that belt drive conversion was done by Jim Green.  It's cool because you can get rid of the front cover of the engine, and a modern belt probably doesn't stretch like a chain, although I certainly don't know that for sure.  What I don't like about those conversions is without the front cover, and with the shortened valve covers, it looks a little less like a cammer.  Still pretty cool, though.  I like the Autolite inline carb on top.  I used to have two of those  set up on an individual runner custom intake I did for a 429 Cobra Jet back in 1985 or so.  Couldn't ever get them to work right, though...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

CDXXVII

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2012, 07:25:58 PM »
I wish somebody would compile the cammer stuff from the FordFE forum. A published version would be useful. A few years ago there were threads on there about cam phasing. Don't remember who originated but it was great.

jayb

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2012, 12:14:52 AM »
That was probably me on the cam phasing thing.  I fitted one of my front covers with a couple of magnetic sensors, and then put bolts with magnets drilled into the ends on the cam gears.  I did the same thing with another sensor and magnet on the crank, and then collected the data through several long dyno pulls in 10 microsecond increments, to see how the cam timing changed at different engine speeds.  The two graphs below are a general summary of the results, showing that the right cam retards a few degrees with engine speed, but the left cam actually advances, which is not an obvious result.





One thing about this data is that it was taken with a more or less stock chain setup, and I wonder if with the Munro chain it wouldn't be different, maybe better.  The other thing is that the engine I tested it on wasn't run much past about 6600 RPM.  It would be interesting to repeat those experiments with a smaller displacement, higher RPM engine, to see what that chain would do at around 9000 RPM.

Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

machoneman

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2012, 08:52:31 AM »
2X on Jim Green doing the drive belt conversion.  That engine was highlighted over the years in a few
magazines and Jim also has the Assassin SOHC dragster up in WA state as well.

I do remember your tests a few years ago as the results differed from the Harvey Crane-Sneaky Pete  Robinson writeup from the late 60's (IIIRC, only one cam retarded, a lot, and the other stayed put).  You may be on to something with relative rpm having an effect on chain whip/retardation. Also, I do remember the supercharged nitro racers of the era running 8,000+ rpm at the line but not quite up to 9K which they easily could have done.  Makes me also wonder why.   
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 03:32:18 AM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

CDXXVII

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2012, 07:47:22 PM »
That sounds like what I remember. Maybe consider another book? I would buy one.

That was probably me on the cam phasing thing.

Kerry j

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2012, 06:34:00 AM »
Got the book yesterday and started reading it. First off, it's printed on cheaper paper than Jay's book and all the pictures inside are black & white. However, there's a lot of Cammer build information in it, I would say, more than half the book is about how to build a Cammer. There's also a lot of reference to Racedyne; so I'm thinking it's probably written by someone with a relationship there. Still, there are a lot of technical details about setting up a Cammer, which to me anyway is what I was looking for. If you already know all about setting up the timing chain and making sure the pulleys are straight etc. it may not be all that useful, but since I don't know squat about how to put a Cammer together, it's a good read for me.

jayb

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2012, 01:38:24 PM »
Thanks Kerry, it sounds like it would be worth picking up a copy.  Its always interesting to learn of somebody else's take on putting those engines together, and it sounds like a good portion of the book is about that.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

mike7570

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2012, 08:00:14 PM »
Not to get this off topic but Scott on the FE Forum posted a link to Craig's List that has Jim Green cammer for sale.

jayb

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Re: Cammer Books
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2012, 05:37:08 PM »
Got my copy of the previously discussed book today.  I'd give it kind of a mixed review.  The photos are all pretty small, and all the text is double spaced, so at 144 pages there isn't really a great deal of information in there.  It's a typical Lulu work, needing some editing and some format work, and bigger photos with better captions, to really appear as a professional publication.

Nevertheless, I found the book rather interesting in a lot of respects.  After reading it I have quite a bit of respect for the author; he has been through these blown alcohol wars, and has obviously learned quite a bit and had a certain amount of success.  He really seems to tell it like it is; he doesn't pull any punches and there is no doubt about where he's coming from.  A good portion of the book is devoted to cammer specific build issues and I found it rather informative.  In particular, he specifies a torque value (114 in-lbs, if I recall correctly) to tighten the chain to.  I've never seen that before, and I don't know how reliable that number is given cast iron or aluminum heads, stock or aftermarket bolts, etc.  I also assume that he is talking about torquing the chain tensioner bolt, but he doesn't say for sure (that's another minor complaint; some of the explanations in the book are short on detail).  But I'm going to try that torque spec on my chain tensioner bolt and see how it compares with where mine is tightened.  That would be a really great way of consistently tightening the chain, if adhering to a specific torque spec on the tensioner bolt would work.

Some other examples of his technical comments were that all the aftermarket FE cranks are without the serrations in the rear main journal to help pump oil away from the seal, and as a result all the aftermarket cranks will leak out the rear main.  I think he's right about that; he advises having those serrations cut into the rear main.  He also says that tulip style valves work best in a hemi chamber, and nailhead style valves work best for a wedge, but my tests on the SOHC showed that the nailhead valves worked better than the tulips on the intake valve; I did have better results with the tulip exhaust valve though.  He also says that he runs the blown alcohol cammer with only .001" of main bearing clearance, and they live forever!  I was really surprised to read that, but have no reason to doubt it.  He also claims that one pass down the track with the bearing clearance at .0035" will take them out.  A 3500 HP blown alcohol engine is whole different world, that's for sure.

The SOHC described in the book runs a solid Dove block (no water jacket) and solid Dove heads, but he still includes a section about leak checking the block, for potential oil leaks in the drilled passages!  I had to laugh about that, especially given my own experience with leaky Dove stuff.  But obviously, to take that kind of horsepower level the block and heads are strong.  Sure wish Dove would put that kind of effort into the parts they sell all the rest of us.

Overall I found the book interesting and informative, and am not sorry I purchased it.  If you want to read about some esoteric, high HP cammer stuff, this book is worth the purchase price.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC