Author Topic: Holley power valve question and jetting  (Read 5323 times)

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FloridaMack

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Holley power valve question and jetting
« on: May 27, 2016, 07:42:43 PM »
I started the 428 out on the Edelbrock 600 for break in and first week. I bought the Quickfuel 750 Vacuum secondary and it "Feels" weaker through  the first half throttle. I compared jets and the Edelbrock came with 98s primary and 95 secondary. QF750V came with 72s? I idle with 18 inches of vacuum and cruise with 12 so I'm switching the stock 6.5 power valve to a 9 to get it to open a little quicker. Should I upsize the jets to around 80 or more while its open? Reading on the web I'm learning the powervalve seems to be equivalent to around 8 on jet size. I'm using it as a DD and towing in a 6200lb truck, Holley street dominator intake, 2 inch neoprene 4 whole spacer. Am I headed the right way?

fryedaddy

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2016, 07:59:53 PM »
i cant believe that 600 came with that big of jets. my 950 holley  came with smaller jets than that 600 edelbrock. that 750s jets sounds ok.the 850 holleys have 78s in them. for your app that edelbrock may work better
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 08:03:21 PM by fryedaddy »
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

My427stang

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2016, 08:33:56 PM »
You can't judge jet size based on comparison with a different carb.  Venturi size, booster design, bleed size, PVCR size, all affect the jet choice. 

Although you may like a little higher PV, I think 9 is a bit steep.  I'd leave the 6.5 in it so you can get some mileage

Make sure the accel pump is adjusted properly and if you really need a little kick a blue pump cam (and a readjustment) can sometimes "feel" good, but the route you are taking is likely going to bathe the engine in fuel
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

My427stang

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2016, 08:35:30 PM »
Whats your timing curve look like?  With that setup, I'd recommend 12-14 degrees initial, 36 total, all in by about 2800, 3000 at the latest.  If you have a stock Duraspark, it's likely very lazy
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

FloridaMack

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2016, 09:01:45 PM »
Im at 18 initial, 28 at 2500 and cant get to 38 till 3500 centrifugal. I just limited the V can to 10 max. Screwed that up too. Before it was Vacumm giving 25 degrees hooked to manifold, and base was set at 10. Idled at 35 degrees, but with vacumm hooked up it was showing 59 total at 3k. Ran great but scared of hurting it so I started "Tuning". I gotta undo what I did I guess. What has me stumped is during the first 30 minutes of running I had the base at 10 to start the engine for the first time. 5 minutes of run time at 2k and the headers were cherry red. I started turning the dist and found 40 degrees the pipes cooled down. Now Im twisted between lean or crazy timing. Tested with smoke machine for vacuum leaks. Bought a curv kit but havnt played there yet. I tried using a vacuum pump to check to see what actual timing is under load at 2200 to 2500 which pulls 12 inches under load of truck. Vacuum bleeds bad from my pump, so that didnt work. I cant figure why my combined changes so much when vacuum is applied. It adds up to more than my figures. Might try a timing tape instead of dial back light this weekend.

e philpott

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2016, 09:49:11 PM »
in regards to the Edelbrock 600 big main jet , don't forget you have a big metering rod sticking through the primary jet , so it's jet size *minus* metering rod size is the actual fuel flow area ...... so to compare to Holley jet size does not translate the same to Ebrock

My427stang

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2016, 07:25:06 AM »
Im at 18 initial, 28 at 2500 and cant get to 38 till 3500 centrifugal. I just limited the V can to 10 max. Screwed that up too. Before it was Vacumm giving 25 degrees hooked to manifold, and base was set at 10. Idled at 35 degrees, but with vacumm hooked up it was showing 59 total at 3k. Ran great but scared of hurting it so I started "Tuning". I gotta undo what I did I guess. What has me stumped is during the first 30 minutes of running I had the base at 10 to start the engine for the first time. 5 minutes of run time at 2k and the headers were cherry red. I started turning the dist and found 40 degrees the pipes cooled down. Now Im twisted between lean or crazy timing. Tested with smoke machine for vacuum leaks. Bought a curv kit but havnt played there yet. I tried using a vacuum pump to check to see what actual timing is under load at 2200 to 2500 which pulls 12 inches under load of truck. Vacuum bleeds bad from my pump, so that didnt work. I cant figure why my combined changes so much when vacuum is applied. It adds up to more than my figures. Might try a timing tape instead of dial back light this weekend.

That's where you are hurting for power.  You have the standard "timing is too slow and too much" stock distributor.   That's why you were cooking your headers at a low initial.  It's not lean, two strokes run hot when lean, turbos when lean, and in those cases it's under load, what you are seeing is standard late timing and your timing curve verifies it.

The reason vacuum changes it so much is because it's so slow of a curve, you need to go inside the distributor.

Take the vacuum out of your calculations for a while and only think centrifugal.  If you get to 14 initial, (or even 16-18 if your truck likes it, but I think 14 is plenty) and then 36-38 total by 2800, that truck will be a totally different truck, especially part throttle.  You can then add the vacuum advance on top of it, limited like you did, hooked to ported vacuum.

Even better, if you could park the truck or build a second distributor, Faron could likely whip something up quickly and you'd never look back.

I guarantee that your hot headers and low power is not from mixture.
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

FloridaMack

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2016, 09:16:41 PM »
Ok, I have the base set at 14, cent advance goes to max of 34 @ 2800, would take a dremel to center plate to get anymore.  I had to switch to GM wieghts to get here. Vac pluged to ported and limited to 10 max. Will be running around town and one short road trip this weekend to see how it feels. Your right, big changes already. Thanks.

My427stang

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2016, 08:16:45 AM »
Ok, I have the base set at 14, cent advance goes to max of 34 @ 2800, would take a dremel to center plate to get anymore.  I had to switch to GM wieghts to get here. Vac pluged to ported and limited to 10 max. Will be running around town and one short road trip this weekend to see how it feels. Your right, big changes already. Thanks.

Glad to hear it, nice work getting at it

If you are at 14 initial / 34 @ 2800, and you are sure it isn't advancing anymore as you rev higher, you must be in the 10L slot.  That gives 20 degrees advance.  That's where most guys want to be.  If the truck will live with 16 initial, starts easy and doesn't ping, I'd set it there and call it 16/36 good and put your ported vacuum on top of that, if it's happy at 18/38 you could do that too, but I have found a heavy truck can get fussy with the initial that high.  Every one is different though

Be sure to reset idle speed and idle a/f, there might be a little tweaking there that helps drivability
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

FloridaMack

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2016, 08:18:40 AM »
Towing it seemed to have a little pinging on 89, I backed off the timing till that tank was gone. Filled it with 93 and set it back to 14 initial and 34 max. Seemed happy as long as I shift a little latter and keep it at 2000 or higher. 2000 rpm rolls around 57 MPH in final gear @ 10 inches vacuum. Without the Jeep and trailer I see 15 inches vacuum at same speed. I wish I had went a little lower than 10.2 static CR, but Im here now. Think I should leave the standard power valve at 6.5 or mae it come in a little sooner?

turbohunter

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2016, 08:36:36 AM »
Going back to the original swap question from a 600 to a 750.
Could Mack be feeling a difference in venturi size (more torque for smaller size) as well as timing?
I've been experimenting with carb sizes on my trucks 441.
I recently went from a Holley 650 to a QF 780 and felt a loss in the bottom end.
Timing is 14/34.
There are of course many other factors and differences to mess with but for the subject of this thread I felt what Mack did.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


My427stang

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2016, 07:45:05 PM »
Towing it seemed to have a little pinging on 89, I backed off the timing till that tank was gone. Filled it with 93 and set it back to 14 initial and 34 max. Seemed happy as long as I shift a little latter and keep it at 2000 or higher. 2000 rpm rolls around 57 MPH in final gear @ 10 inches vacuum. Without the Jeep and trailer I see 15 inches vacuum at same speed. I wish I had went a little lower than 10.2 static CR, but Im here now. Think I should leave the standard power valve at 6.5 or mae it come in a little sooner?

You could try a 6.5 PV or even go up 2 numbers in jet size instead.  However, you may just leave it too and just bend the tab for the advance spring to make it a little tighter to slow the curve (you should be able to access through a window in the base plate)

Might even to get it so you can run a bit more initial

---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

FloridaMack

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2016, 06:18:10 PM »
Bottom Window? Wrong distributor I think. I switched out the Unilite I started with and back on the GM HEI style now.

turbohunter

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2016, 07:21:33 PM »
So I guess there were more changes than just the carb?
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


My427stang

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Re: Holley power valve question and jetting
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2016, 03:46:28 PM »
I assumed it was a Duraspark

I think I'd likely add a little more spring on one side and get the initial and total back up before I fattened up the carb
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch