Piston Rings for 351w

[FirstEliminator]

   Things are looking up. I called the machinist that bored the block first thing this morning and he had referred me to a guy that can align hone the mains. It was an hour drive to get there. He made no promises, but got the work done. After 4 hours of driving I am back on track for Carlisle.....As long as I can get the engine together, get it in the car, tuned and ready.

    I talked to the guy I bought the block from. He had sold another 351w block a few years ago and possibly gave the wrong mains with that one.  Yeah, why not keep things like that together.

    If I had more time, I'd look into the ring spacers.

  thanks,
    Mark 

[FirstEliminator]

    Tonight I am assembling the engine. Got the short block done and are looking at the heads. I mentioned I bought a few tools from Summit the other day when I got the piston rings. One of the tools was a valve spring tester. What I found when testing the stock spring is that the closed height is 1.8. The pressure at 1.8 is 54 pounds. Man, maybe that is one of the reasons my engine never ran up to par? The Isky cam I had in there calls for a spring that has 135 on the seat.  Is 54 pounds  normal for a stock spring? These are GT 40 heads from a 96 Ford Explorer which would have a roller cam. The new Lunati Voo-Doo cam calls for 115 @ 1.75. That was the only spring dimension given on the cam card. Looking around I found the spring they recommend has an open pressure of 246 @ 1.25.

   I can say I am a little scared of running the heavier spring. I don't want to flatten a lobe. If I pull the damper out, it has about 15 pounds less. The stock springs don't have a damper. It would be a little less pressure for an engine that is 2 barrel with single exhaust in a car that just drives around.  I need some help to determine whether to go with or without the damper?

   Also, should I break in the cam with the stock springs? Not sure if those valves are bouncing off the seats at 2000 rpms.

   thanks,
      Mark

[jayb]

I doubt they would be bouncing off the seats at 2500 RPM, but even if they are, you are still getting the cam broken in.  I would leave them in until the break-in is done, and then get rid of those things; no way they started out that weak!

[FirstEliminator]

Thanks for the reply Jay. Any thoughts on removing or leaving the damper in place?  I'm kinda thinking in the very mild application a little less tension might be o-k.

 thanks,
     Mark

[jayb]

I think I would leave the damper in there.  Valve springs are designed as a package, and I'm not sure what you might be getting into by leaving it out.  Those springs are not so heavy that they should cause any problems, especially if the cam is broken in with the stock springs.

[Falcon67]

Thanks for the reply Jay. Any thoughts on removing or leaving the damper in place?  I'm kinda thinking in the very mild application a little less tension might be o-k.

 thanks,
     Mark

If you really have 54 lbs seat, then you don't need to change anything - except throw those away after a good break in.  135~140 seat minimum like Isky says, over the nose - follow their recommendations.  Buy a quality spring/matching retainer/keepers, don't look for anything no-name/cheap.  10 degree locks preferred.

[FirstEliminator]

     Well, I took out the 54lb stock springs right before I read the posts to leave them in there. The next day, I borrowed a pneumatic valve spring compressor to put them all back. The engine is now in the car and there are just a few more things to assemble. I did remove the damper from the new springs because it doesn't fit the head properly. The column that comes up to center the spring is just a tad too big in diameter. The spring with damper gets stuck on it. I'm afraid it will create metallic or possibly break a spring. There was no time to machine the column to accept the spring and damper. I believe the spring by itself is o-k. It has about 5 lbs less on the seat than called for with the Lunati cam. With the damper, it would have had about 10 over.
    Perhaps later I can change it to a spring that fits properly. For now it'll work. Chances are "for now" might just be forever.

   thanks,
      Mark

[Falcon67]

Agree.  If you're not wailing on it. it should run just fine for cruising.  Sounds like the proper setup will require the heads to come off for machining.  Unless this is a resto, might be worth just hunting around for a deal on a better set of heads.  Good luck and hope it all works AOK. 

[FirstEliminator]

Thought I had a fight so far. Well, upon breaking in the cam I had a cam lobe and lifter fail. The lifter looks like Gumby's head. Oil is has enough silver metallic to paint a bass boat.  Engine is back out of the car and parts have been overnighted. There's enough time for one last attempt. I have until 9am Thursday morning to get things together. Or, I'll be taking the Colony Park to Carlisle.

    With fresh paint at least it looked nice.   Sucks.


    Mark

[jayb]

Man, that sucks.  What kind of cam and lifters were they?  Did you use a break-in lube from one of the cam manufacturers?  What kind of oil?  With 50 pounds on the seat there is no way you overdid it on the springs...

[Falcon67]

Best of luck, hope this one works!  Sorry to hear about the failed break in. 

[FirstEliminator]

Lunati Voodoo cam. Mild 207/213 @.050 with a 112 sep.  I used Isky rev lube on the cam, non-detergent 30wt and a bottle of Comp Cam break in additive. Car started pretty quickly and came up to 2200.

   My thought is either the lifter was no good. Or, more likely it was having trouble rotating in it's bore. There was one lifter with a dot on it out of the box. Actually, one single pit. I was a little nervous with that one and was cursing myself for using it. That lifter was in the cylinder next to the failed lifter. The dot lifter had no trouble.

   To save time I'm just going to use the 105 lb valve spring for break in. Lunati said 105 is very mild and there should be no problem at all.

    35 hours to departure. Parts should be here in 14, leaving 21 hours to assemble, install, break-in, tune, clean and pack.....seams feasible. The only thing that would make it more fun is if it were an FE.

   thanks,
     Mark

[FirstEliminator]

It's all over now. The jackass salesman I talked to at Summit shipped my order regular ground. I emphasized next day air. Even asked if they offer next day air by 10am. He said no, so I said o-k, regular next day air. I could probably source the bearing and gaskets locally that I need. But, not the camshaft.

  For some reason, I am not meant to take this 69 Cougar to Carlisle.

   thanks,
      Mark

[machoneman]

May be a good thing, the slow freight, that is. I'd always take extra time with a cam failure to really determine why it occurred. A non-rotating lifter is often a cause as old varnish on the bore(s) can stop it from rotating. That or a few other factors like a bad heat treat, etc. Given the next try, I'd ensure all rotated freely before giving it another shot. JMO!     

[Falcon67]

Hard to believe from Summit - both them and Jegs and do overnight, done it.  They are usually much better than that.

Cams fail because - I used the well run in Crane F238 solid and matching EDM lifters in the wife's build - ran for two years in my car, no problem.  Lasted 5 rounds in the wife's car, #8 exhaust went away, lost .25 of it's lift in 5 1/8 mile passes.  Same racing oil used, etc.  Go figure.

Which is why I'm now roller or nothing.