New FE Block, Heads, and Intakes on the horizon...

[MustangGT]

Very interesting thread!
All of a sudden my 527 Shelby "big Bore" engine looks like a small block 
I will follow this thread carefully 

Regards
Morten

[jayb]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned earlier in this thread but changing the bell housing mating surface would open up so many possibilities for transmissions. But if your willing to buy into new blocks then your probably ok with buying aftermarket adapters.

I had somebody else email me about this today, but I don't see the appeal.  You can already buy anything from a toploader to a Magnum 6 speed that bolts up to an FE, or a C-4 or Powerglide  in addition to a C-6.  Why bother with anything else?

Let's not forget - complexity adds cost.  The more the block manufacturer is asked to do, the more expensive the part gets...

[FElony]

I had somebody else email me about this today, but I don't see the appeal.  You can already buy anything from a toploader to a Magnum 6 speed that bolts up to an FE, or a C-4 or Powerglide  in addition to a C-6.  Why bother with anything else?

Just because you don't see the appeal doesn't mean that there aren't hundreds that do. You'd sell craploads more blocks with a modern pattern than a raised cam block with wider bore spacing. Personally, I'll take a winder with a manual valve body 6R80 and a paddle shifter.

Let's not forget - complexity adds cost.  The more the block manufacturer is asked to do, the more expensive the part gets...

Says the guy who's trying to sell 632-inch engines. I KNEW this would get ignored. 

[jayb]

Sorry, I know you hate being ignored    If there are hundreds of FE fans out there who see the appeal, I'd sure like to hear from them.  I doubt it, though.  I wonder what a 6R80 will take horsepower-wise?

[Drew Pojedinec]

looking at the 6r80 and an FE bellhousing, it seems you could almost make a block that could provide both with minimal issues (need to be able to remove alignment dowels obviously).  I think I'd need them both in front of me tho and at my location I have neither.

Of course this project is for the fastest of racers and I cannot see any any of them kicking a c4 or powerglide out of a car for a 250lb 6r80.

I don't see the appeal of taking an older nostalgia engine and changing everything, might as well just start off with a 460 aftermarket block, or if you are just dying to design and change 100% of the engine, why not just design and engine from scratch?  seems like a lot less headaches.

Back to 390 blocks for proletariat like us Felony....
Either way, good luck Jay, should be a fascinating journey for those with the fortitude and bankroll to buy a ticket for this ride.

[fekbmax]

I'll take my 632 with a lenco or liberty please..   

[Drew Pojedinec]

I wonder what a 6R80 will take horsepower-wise?

stock? rated at 800ft lbs.  (Thought that was what 6r80 means.... 6 speed, 800ft lb)
spend a few thousand and you have something that could survive behind your car.  Might be handy if you need a super low gear and double overdrive.  I think it'd be a much nicer street trans or perhaps something for the 1 mile drag racers (maybe even salt flats?)

[Posi67]

And of course, I have to bring up the point of when does a FE quit being a FE? There are people are wanting highly modified blocks, canted valve heads, non FE intakes (sorry Jay) re-arranged firing order and on and on... So far, we have everything needed to make 1000 HP N/A in a engine that looks and sounds just like the way Ford built them. Some compression and a lumpy cam in a FE is all I need because NOTHING sounds as good.

I know guys with 500-600 inch other stuff and while they do go fast, they sound just like every other lump out there. If I had a real race car, was about 20 years younger and wanted to go fast it wouldn't be FE powered. Put me in the Old and Nostalgic Club please..

[jayb]

Yes, "When is it no longer an FE" is a good question.  Since I'm doing a set of heads from scratch I could do canted valves, but to me that is too far away from the original FE design to be of interest.  I'd like the engine to look like an FE, with FE valve covers, water pump, timing cover, oil pan, same basic valvetrain arrangement, etc.  Some people may look at the intake manifolds I'm working on and say that the engine doesn't look like an FE anymore, but on the other hand there are so many intake manifold variations (1X4, 2X4, crossrams, tunnel rams, downdraft and sidedraft Webers, etc. etc.), and nobody every says "That doesn't look like an FE", so I kind of feel like the intake can be any configuration without betraying the basic form of the FE engine.

I guess its all semantics in the end anyway...

[cjshaker]

Modified bellhousing pattern...count me out.
Paddle shifters...phht. Might as well add a fart can, a big wing on the back and subwoofers. Me thinks you've watched one to many Fast & Furious movies.

I'd add Lenco, Liberty and G-Force to Jays list of trannys that can be used. You can even air shift them if that's what you want.

[Joe-JDC]

I had the "paddle shifter" 6 speed automatic, and I did not like it.  My son has one in his BMW turbo, and loves it.  I guess it is a generational thing.  I found my "paddle shifter" slow to upshift, and I wound up over-revving or hitting the fuel shut-off before it would shift.  Same with the slapstick manual shift automatics in all the trucks, they will not shift when you do.  So, my vote is still TKO style bellhousing and three pedals.  Joe-JDC

[blykins]

If I could slightly twist your arm, Jay, I would reconsider the valve layout....a canted valve layout may make a tremendous amount of difference.  I haven't given it any more thought than what I just wrote, but maybe it's possible to lay it out and keep it under a factory valve cover/intake layout? 

[jayb]

I have looked at that Brent, and have even gone so far as designing a new valve cover that would have bulges on the outboard side, to accommodate the moved exhaust valve and valvespring.  But goodbye to a single rocker shaft design with that approach, and then I've got to tool a valve cover in addition to the heads and intake, plus all the really cool vintage valve covers won't fit anymore.  The canted valve system moved me too far away from the basic FE design concept. 

[Joe-JDC]

Here is an idea you might find interesting.  It is off topic, but applicable to what you are thinking.  As most of you know I have been helping a few folks with Ford Y block heads and intakes, and there is a fairly new aluminum head cast by Edelbrock for John Mummert, in CA.  He has updated the head and intake, so that a fairly stockish 292/312 Y block can make close to 400 hp on pump gas, and idle like a stocker.  I have ported several sets of those heads and even had one set make 585hp on a stroker Y, and just last year another set for an EMC entry made 561hp on 362 cubic inches.  We tried many intakes that I had ported to flow various cfm average, and the heads flowed around 282/202 upper, 272/202 lower ports.  The heads were neither the best or worst, just a good set of heads, but John Mummert has come up with a radically changed head that is angle milled .125" for a smaller chamber and valves moved closer to centerline of bore, moved the exhaust valve inboard and installed a smaller 1.510" valve, moved the spark plug and tapped it for a 10mm sparkplug, and the real neat part was moving the rocker stands to achieve a 1.7 rocker ratio.  We bolted a pair of the CNC'd heads on the same engine, and immediately picked up 21 hp.  Whether it was a combination of higher compression, and more rocker ratio, or moved spark plug, it flat worked!  They went on to produce 594 hp @ 6800 rpm, and after the EMC was over, made a few tweaks to 599.4hp. All this through a 1.94/1.51 set of valves.  If the FE head was treated to similar tweaks, I am sure the flow would come up, and performance would jump.  Just a few ideas to consider.  Joe-JDC 

[jmlay]

I have to say multiple bell housing bolt patterns would be a great option but then again Im not the one doing the work either. ;-)