427 Low Riser - 500hp Goal

[SRS_Chris]

I have been searching through the dyno section looking for comparable builds to some avail, but I wanted some direct feedback from experienced FE owners/builders as well.  I have a 1963 427 build on the go right now.  The customer has a target of 500-550 horsepower on pump fuel.  Here is the plan thus far:

- Block: 1963 casting, no oil to lifters, cross bolted mains
- Crank: Ford 3.78 stroke
- Rod: Ford 6.488"
- Piston: Icon flat top (yield ~10.5:1 static)
- Head: Ford '63 Low riser head.  Cut for 2.19 intake valve, 1.75 exhaust valve.  Port work and flow testing to follow.  Looking to go 260 - 270 cfm on intake while keeping CSA down.
- Intake: Ford medium riser dual quad
- Carbs: Ford/Holley BK and BJ carbs
- Camshaft: Solid Roller.  Looking at Crower 16462 depending on head flow numbers.  If heads flow beyond .600" without backing up will likely go to a Crower 16463.
- Lifters: Crower Solid Roller
- Rockers: Harland Sharp bushed (complete system)

I am not too proud to say that my FE experience is limited, so if you see anything that jumps out at you please let me know. 

[blykins]

You'll get there with that combo.  I did an 11.5:1 427 LR 2x4 that made 510 hp.  Rules limited me to a solid flat tappet, factory rockers, etc. 

My heads flowed around 280-290 with some heavy port work and the intake was ported to match. 

All of this is in the dyno results section of this forum, as well as my own website.

You will need a cam with quite a bit more duration than the ones you have picked.  There aren't a lot of good off-the-shelf solid rollers for the FE...you may need to go custom depending on how your parts come together.  That's not a bad thing considering you can get a fully custom cam from Comp for less than the off-the-shelf Crower....

[jayb]

Welcome to the board, and I agree with Brent that you should be able to hit your HP goal.  You have an excellent induction system and a good set of heads to start with.  I think with the valve sizes you should be able to get to 280+ cfm on the intake port while maintaining the stock port size.  I doubt the port would back up at 0.600" with the larger intake valve.

I'd be looking at a custom Comp solid roller from their High Energy street series, single pattern, probably lobe number 1476, which is 288 advertised, 244@ 0.050", and will be about 0.645" lift at the valve.  Probably an LSA of 110 and set the intake centerline at 106.  According to my calculator that would give you a dynamic compression ratio of 8.0:1, which would be fine with pump gas and the cast iron heads.  You might also look at an Xtreme Energy street roller, probably lobe number 4875, which is 286 advertised, 248@ 0.050", and 0.676" at the valve, with the same LSA and ICL. 

Also, stick with the Crower roller lifters.  And don't bother to port the MR intake to the low-riser heads at the bottom of the port; won't do you any good.  Hope that helps, and let us know how the build turns out!

[blykins]

I've used that Xtreme Energy lobe, it's a good one. 

If the OP could tell us what it's going in, what trans, what gear, etc., we could probably nail down the lobes.  I like a little more duration for a racier application....probably 6-8 degree split with this one.  If the rest of the combo matched, I would probably hit somewhere around the low 250's for duration, 108 LSA. 

[SRS_Chris]

Thanks for the feedback.  The car is a street oriented 63 Galaxie with a 4 speed (original R-code car).  Not sure on the rear gear ratio yet; this will be something that I discuss with the owner in the new year.  My biggest concern right now is reaching our previously discussed horsepower goal without making the engine too "racy" for the Galaxie tank.  I am hesitant to go too large on the cam lobes for fear of making the engine a dog down low in a heavy car.

[blykins]

Don't fear the gear..... 

You will want to be in the 240's/250's for duration depending on how the heads turn out.  A tighter LSA would help with the  torque and mid range if you don't need the vacuum.

[ScotiaFE]

- Block: 1963 casting, no oil to lifters, cross bolted mains
 

I am missing something here or is ok to run a solid roller with no oil?
I thought pin oiling was pretty much mandatory for any kind of life.

[Joe-JDC]

Not a slam dunk on reaching that HP level with iron heads and stock stroke and pump gas.  It will be very temperamental at anything below 1000 rpm, and a bear to drive on the street with solid roller cam.  A lot of builds here on these forums, but reaching an honest 500 hp with stock parts will be difficult.  Not impossible, but not easy as it might seem.  Simple stroke increase will change the temperament and ease of reaching that goal.   Just my opinion, Joe-JDC 

[CaptCobrajet]

Very doable.  I would not put those valves in a LR head.  The valves will be very close together with that valve spacing, giving potential to leaking where the valves almost touch.  Also, the 2.19 intakes make it VERY thin near the spark plug, and make a future crack there more likely.  I would suggest some towers (with venting) to make some oil stand in the lifter valley to help lube the lifters, or preferably drill the block for oil and use HIPPO Crower lifters.  Lifter life is shorter without pressure fed oiling.

[ScotiaFE]

I run a similar size roller in my 428.
I would not call it a parade cam.
But with a good gear selection it works for me.
Get it spinning and it works great.

[jayb]

I am missing something here or is ok to run a solid roller with no oil?
I thought pin oiling was pretty much mandatory for any kind of life.

For sure its true that pin oiling will increase the lifespan of solid rollers on the street.  Before pin oiling was available I ran solid rollers on the street for quite a few years, and always limited the time at low RPM.  If I was in traffic, I'd rev the engine every 20-30 seconds or so to make sure I was getting plenty of splash to the lifters.  Even so, I'd occasionally burn up a lifter.  Since the pin oiling feature came out, I haven't lost one.  Since pin oiling isn't available in the block with this build, that will be a risk.  But if the spring pressure stays down, and the oil splash is there most of the time, it might be OK.  Almost gotta try it and see...

[jayb]

  Simple stroke increase will change the temperament and ease of reaching that goal.   Just my opinion, Joe-JDC

I think Joe makes a pretty good point about the stroke.  If the build is not yet fixed on stroke, a 4.25" stroker kit will yield 480+ cubic inches, making 500-550 HP pretty easy.  Could even dodge the roller lifter issue at that point and go flat tappet, and still get there...

[blykins]

I agree.  That would make the engine less finicky, but would keep the horsepower and torque up. 

Back in the day, before pressure fed lifters came out, lifter manufacturers were rating their lifters for 3000 mile life spans.  Not bad if you're drag racing....real bad if you're driving on the street...LOL

[cjshaker]

Not sure if you saw my build in the dyno section or not, but my stock stroke, iron MR headed 427 SO made 497hp at 6000 RPMs. Same stroke and induction set-up that you're using with the BJ/BK MR intake. That is on a basically un-modified 427 using factory iron and a flat tappet cam. To reach the 550 mark would take some doing, some good head/valve work and a stout valvetrain/roller set-up.

I have a couple of things working against me on my build. The stock unported heads already had the larger TP 2.25 valves installed, which probably doesn't help much on my build, being a street engine. The duration numbers are pretty big at 264@.050, but it helped to keep the lift down and made it easier on the valvetrain for street use. I have a solid lifter block, so a flat tappet solid cam was pretty much my only choice without resorting to extensive drilling for lifter oiling, which I wanted to stay away from. Still, my engine will idle fine at 800-900 rpm and pulls away from an idle fine, but that's in a 4spd car with 3.89 gears and a lighter Mustang body, although I do have 28" tall tires also. Some decent gearing, like 3.89 minimum, will certainly help if he plans on keeping the 3.78 stroke, as will a heavier flywheel. A heavier flywheel will not only help the idle, but will help get the car rolling easier.

There is nothing trick about my engine, and it reached your goal, so it's certainly doable with good tuning and cam selection. I do agree with Joe though, the duration figures are going to have to be fairly stout if you stick with factory iron. I don't have any problems driving mine on the street, even with in-town driving, but I don't deal with heavy city or bumper to bumper stuff either.

Here's a short clip I just uploaded so you can hear the idle.
https://youtu.be/PDiG2OSZ0bw

In the first couple minutes of this clip you can see the driving characteristics. After that it's just open road driving.
https://youtu.be/4QCcUptqPIc

Hopefully that might help you out some.

[Heo]

I rode i dougs car and can confirm
It runs fine and pulls Hard from the
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