Plus and minuses bushed rockers vs needle bearing.

[turbohunter]

The new HS rockers have me wondering about the race specific differences in bushed vs bearing rockers.
Would you guys with experience in both please comment on the pluses and minuses.

[blykins]

All your higher end rockers, such as T&D, have needle bearings.  They require less oil to operate....which is good for higher end applications, where you need to save the oil for the bottom end. 

[turbohunter]

That's what I thought. Which makes me wonder why HS would use a bushing in "race" rockers.

[cjshaker]

That's what I thought. Which makes me wonder why HS would use a bushing in "race" rockers.

Cost. The T&D race set-up is much more expensive.  There's nothing wrong with bushed rockers in a street or race application. They've been used for decades with success. The needle bearing rockers may offer less resistance, better oil usage and handle higher spring pressures better, but like anything, there can be downsides. With needle bearing rockers you need to keep a closer eye on them. A failure can destroy an engine. There have been LOTS of drag engines that have successfully ran the Dove wide body rockers, which don't even have a bushing. To me, the Cranes are a step up, with the T&D needle bearing rockers being another step up from the Cranes. Everything has its trade offs.

[turbohunter]

Found out some more about the "new" rockers. Asked my brother to go over and check them out.
The stands are full length, the shafts are solid. Those caps were missing just to show what's underneath at the show.
This setup has been made for years as a private label for Denbeste. They changed owners and went to another manufacturer. Harland thought it was a nice piece and wanted to make them available under their name.
I have some real nice pics I will post as soon as this damn IPad lets me.

Edit
Ryan just told me that the current shafts are to large for HS needle bearings. He says he could remake it with a 2piece 5/8 shaft for bearings.

[turbohunter]

[turbohunter]

Following up on what Doug said, it seems these have a lot to offer a budget build of a race motor.
Solid shaft, full length stands, push rod oiling, bushings for less to worry about.
Sure it may not cycle as well as a good set of bearings but unless you're an ss motor trying to find every sliver of power, no down side.

[fekbmax]

Nice Picts, looks like a nice setup.
Personally I think as far as the shaft oiling setup the ersons had the best of both worlds. Some of us can't do the push rod oiling, old vintage non drilled lifter Galley blocks. True they could be drilled but that's costly. I'm working on a 9 point mounting setup for my erson stands. I think it can be done and it may be crude but any help at all is better than relying just on the 4 bolt system with 750-800 lb spring pressures..

[garyv]

4 bolt rocker stands and 750lb springs will not cut it.
The stands will start squirming around.
We had to back off the spring pressure, ditch the solid roller, and go with a solid flat tappet on my tunnel port
because of that very thing.
You're into race T&D's at those pressures
Good luck
garyv

[fekbmax]

I'd like to get ahold Of a set of these, or atleast some good images of them. Supposedly there are atleast a few sets that were made and out there somewhere. 9 POINT mounting with STOCK OILING .

[blykins]

"Saving precious weight in the valvetrain?"  ??

Since when does going to an oiling pushrod make the valvetrain that much heavier?  If you're trying to push 700-800 lb springs, a regular 3/8" ball/cup pushrod isn't gonna cut the mustard anyway....and I would venture to say that that the big cup end would actually make a pushrod heavier.

Unless you're dealing with a block that doesn't oil, I see no negatives about using a rocker system that uses pushrod oiling.  Most of your solid lifters are orifice metered anyway, so they restrict the amount of oil going to the top.  In extreme cases, such as drag racing, where the amount of oil can really be cut down, you can get restrictor pushrods.

[turbohunter]

Hey Brent, while you're here what's your first impression of the new HS system?

[blykins]

For big dog spring pressures, I don't want something held to the head by (4) bolts or studs.  I pulled a rocker stud out of an aluminum head with 650 lbs open pressure once.   Don't ever want it to happen again.  I use race T&D setups for all of my aluminum FE solid roller setups.  Just can't afford any issues and would rather have it done right from the get-go.

[turbohunter]

I see your point.
Would the solid shaft help with that by keeping the load well spread out?

[fekbmax]

I have never doubted The superior TD system or the fact that the push rod oiling system is by far the better setup. I'm only saying that for blocks that are not drilled and guys that can't make the costly $ of drilling a block properly and then still spending the $ on a race TD setup, that I wondered why the conventional setup hasn't been made with the 9 point fastening. Surely it could be done.