445 build for 68 Torino GT

[Landlubberatsea]

Hi all, thought it would be a good idea to start my upcoming 445 build with presenting my plans and asking some questions in this forum.

First of all, I know that topics are better served in small portions on the forum so my apologies on beforehand for doing this………

As I mentioned in my thread about oil pressure I’m planning to build (or have it built may be more correct) a 445, but before ordering parts I would really appreciate some input from the great knowledge bank of this forum.

My initial plan was to have the engine built by Survival and I received a suggestion and quote from Mr. Rabotnick which was really tempting. (Sorry for wasting your time, I will order the 445 kit from you though)
Unfortunately, while I was being a coward and having problems with coming to a decision, the Swedish Krona lost so much in value against the US Dollar that this no longer is an option for me. With the import fees and transport etc it would just be too expensive. So now to plan B.

The engine will be placed in a 68 Torino GT with C6 tranny and 3.25 rear end and what I’m looking for is drivability and maximum vehicle utility during the short season over here.
It will be used in the summertime and mostly to get me around the closest area, 10 miles radius maybe, on roads with speed limits from 30-50 mph and with the occasional trip on the highway to the closest towns.
I would like to be able to use it for the odd longer trip with the family though. Maybe a 1000 mile roundtrip once per season or so (otherwise the missus will never understand why I spend so much money of ours on an old car )

It will probably not see the track, at least not in its first version. But it is always funny to do some moderate (yeah right) revving when pulling off and since overtaking is a risk situation we should always try to minimize the time spent in the opposite lane, right

So in big pictures, the budget orientated plan now is as follows.

Original 68 block, with minor oil mods and drilled, honed, parallel decked etc.
Stroker kit from Survival with I beams.
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and heads from the box (plan on adding restrictor though)
Hydraulic roller cam and lifters (would be worried to death about the break in process on a solid)
Original rockers, initially at least - for budget reasons, but with POP end stands and DSC shafts (by the way are the rocker spacers sold by DSC money well spent?) The valve train is based on Wade “65er”s engine, would be interesting to hear if it has worked ok.
750 vac sec carburetor
MSD ignition and distributor (which I have already).
FPA Headers (on order)

And now time for some questions.

1.    Is my plan reasonable or should I go back to the drawing table and start all over again?
2.   What kind of pistons and compression should I go for in the Stroker Kit?
3.   Suggestions on cam, 1500 – 5500 rpm or so,
4.   Is mechanical fuel pump ok and if so, which one do you recommend? Do I need a return line for fuel?
5.   What converter should I match the engine with? (I plan to have enough money next winter to do a gearvendor job and some steeper gear in the back, maybe 3.70-3.89)
6.   Any other must dos/haves?

Hopefully, if get it as I want it, this can be an engine which I can continue to improve over the years to come but without having to touch the bottom. I'm thinking porting heads and intake, valve job, roller rockers, bigger carb etc.

Once again sorry for the word-diarrhea but I felt I had to try to show the whole picture from the beginning to make it easier to come with suggestions.
 
Looking forward to hearing from you / Jan

[ScotiaFE]

Plan B sounds great.
The compression in the 10 to 1 range.
Cam, about 235* @.050 with a 600ish lift will give you some pep with a nice strong idle. Or bigger.
A mechanical fuel pump is fine. 3/8" fuel line from the tank pickup to the carb.
For the converter, a 10" with a modest stall in the 2500 rpm range will work
great for your intended usage.
Use a bigger oil pan. Something that hold about 8 quarts. A T or deep sump pan. Which ever one you like the best.
They both work great.
Nice car.
Good luck.

[jayb]

Nice looking car, Jan.  On the fuel pump, what kind of fuel do you have there?  Here in the US a lot of us have to deal with 10% ethanol in the fuel, and fairly low octane levels.  I have found an electric fuel pump with a return style fuel system is the best way to go with this fuel, because the boiling point of the fuel is really low.  But I think in Europe the fuel is higher octane, and doesn't contain ethanol; is that correct?  If so, I wonder if the boiling point of the fuel is higher, and then a mechanical fuel pump setup may be fine. 

The rest of your plan sounds good, and I'd agree with Howie's recommendations.  You might want to contact Barry R, Brent L, or Blair P about a specific hydraulic roller cam recommendation.  They all build a lot of those engines, and have experience with the available grinds.

[Landlubberatsea]

Howie and Jay, thanks for your answers and suggestions as well as the compliments on the car. Yes she is kind of nice and I'm glad the car is in such a good condition bodywise so that I can just spend the time, when the engine is out of the bay, on smaller improvements on fuel, break and suspension system and the converter of course.

The fuel over here is 95 or 98 octane. I normally use the 98 which has up to 5% ethanol but it's not available at all stations. The 95 is currently also 5% ethanol but they plan to increase it (or if they have already done it) to 10%.
I will check around a bit here to see what people over here are using for fuel supply.
Heo, do you think mechanical will be fine with our fuel?

By the way, is 10:1 still suitable with that octane or should I go a bit higher? Maybe not necessary for my intentions though.

I think I will check with Barry if he has a suitable cam for me when I place the order for the stroker kit.

By the way, any particular brand of converters to avoid or are they all equal? Should I also go for a deeper pan on the C6?

OK, I can feel that I'm getting closer to ordering point Will just see if I can educate myself a bit more about compression ratio and different pistons before I contact Mr Rabotnick and get it on the way.   

Thanks again for your time, I will try to keep on documenting my progress here and will see if I can attach some pictures also when I get back ashore to the garage.

Have a nice sunday all of you

[Heo]

I had no problem with our fuel
and mecanical fuel pump yet
One thing i notised though
On my Model A with adjustabel
main jet. Different fuel brands
takes different adjustments
no problem though you just
turn the choke nob to adjust
Skellefte bränsle that smelled like
Aspen miljö bensin gave me most
power and "scary"high top speed   

[Landlubberatsea]

Ha Ha, sounds good, skellefte bränsle might be a good reason to go north next summer and see if I experience some off that scary top speed in my Torino as well

[Heo]

HA HA you probably reach it in first gear

[Landlubberatsea]

Finally back from sea and can continue on the 390.
Yesterday was a bit like christmas with one package from Jay  and one from Dennis at DSC waiting for me. Happy to tell you that thanks to good packaging all parts made it safe and sound across the Atlantic, thanks guys.
After opening it was time to head downtown to the garage and start preparations for lifting out the engine. Looks great from that angle although the open hood gives you a wink that maybe not all is great underneath

to be continued.....

[Landlubberatsea]

So, decided to have a look under the valve covers just to make sure there wasn't a state of the art valve train with roller rockers lurkin' underneath but nah only the standard non-adjustable ( The newly received quote from a swedish builder makes me hope for miracles )
What had me worried though was that there was quite much debris underneath the covers especially on the drivers side. It looked at first like the parts were rusty but it came of easily with a wipe of the finger and seems more like it is some kind of rusty shavings ?!? it was also a bit rusty on the inside of the covers. Didn't see anything like this down in the tray. On some of the pictures I took it could even look like it was brass shavings in the debris, judging by the color on the photos but this color was not visible in real life so maybe it is just the camera.

Is there anyone who have seen anything like this before or can make out what it is by the pictures?   

[Landlubberatsea]

more pictures...

[Barry_R]

That sure looks like rust from condensation.  Not common in a running engine.  But possible in one that spent a great deal of time sitting in a humid environment.  I do not think I would want to run it that way.

[Landlubberatsea]

Hi Barry thanks for answering, no the engine won't be run more before it's rebuild but maybe this is the reason why a rebuild is necessary.

Rust from condensation was my first thought as well when I saw the inside of the covers, I just thought it was a bit strange that it was so much loose debris on the rockers and heads that came off so easy without a pitting underneath. Maybe a contributing factor to the bearings being eaten up as well.

Any suggestions on how to avoid this in the future? Take off covers and cover heads with rag soaked in oil?  Unfortunately the only garage available right now is without heating so it will be cold during winter and then it will not be started so often either.

[My427stang]

I love this thing, I have two

http://www.carbag.com/

In the winter, I am forced to put either the truck or Mustang in an unheated garage and if I want to work on the other.  These car jackets are big, heavy duty zippered drive in bags and they are pretty cheap considering how long they last.  They come with desiccant bags to soak up the water and as long as you put the bags away in a sealed container each year, they last a long time.

The car stays perfectly clean and dry, not a bit of condensation.  I have even used it inside my trailer when I have had to use it for storage.  Needless to say, no way to tie the car down when its in a sealed plastic bag, but worked great

[Landlubberatsea]

Hi Ross, that might be an idea, thanks!

[Heo]

A friend of mine had rebuilt a 327 for her Camaro
and it was not started for maby 5 years
She test fired it and run it warm and called me
and wanted help to adjust the valves beacuse it
was something wrong
She had got solid lifters for a hyd.cam so we had
to tear it down and change lifters and it was
rust everywere in the engine the oilpump was junk
and the bearings. From running about 20 min to break
in the cam
And it had been stored in a heated garage but never run
after the rebuild
So i think its a big possibility thats what killed your bearings