Classic car newb with a 390FE and lots of maintenance & perofrmance questions

[Jackal]

Hey all, after a 4 year hunt I finally found my 63.5 Galaxie 500XL 390 with gold Thunderbird valve covers and gold 4v-premium fuel intake. The car is an original Z-code, but the motor is not original and I haven't yet had time to do any identification on it. I will have to get up to speed and go to work. Is this engine supposed to be a 300 or 330 bulk HP engine? I haven't yet tested compression, a little afraid to...hahaha. What range should I see on a hot / cold motor? She seems strong and no strange noises.

Far as I know it is stock with a 600cfm Edy carb and intake. Wondering how many ponies this carb will be good for. Also, where can I get a carb / intake gasket and K&N filter for the aluminum Edlebrock air cleaner? I think its an Edelbrock 1406. I don't mind the Edlebrock intake, but it looks a little out of place. I've considered running the stock intake, but seems like it would hold an awful lot of heat and seems restrictive. I need to look around at my options.

On a cold start, she fires right up without touching the pedal. On a hot or heat soaked motor, she seems to want it wide-open and cranks a bit. I ran the batt. down yesterday by being hard headed and not holding the gas open, lesson learned. However, after stopping again for gas on the way home it did something odd. The car has an e-fan on it to assist with the heat in slow speed / stopped situations and it seems to run about 45-55% on the temp gauge unless I flip the fan off and turn the car off and let it heat soak. This is pretty well what happened yesterday at the gas station. I turned the key and it did nothing, not even a Gen light, didn't even try to turn over. I asked for a jump from a new F150 and the car was doing the exact same thing, but it was pulling on the F150 enough to drag it down, though still not turning the motor over for me. We gave up and he left. I checked all the wires and they were good, but I did remove the coil wire and reconnect and when I got back in the car it fired right up like nothing was ever wrong, though the temp gauge was reading about 95% at this point though no apparently boil over. What does this sound like...an issue with the starter or? Seems odd that I didn't have the Gen light come on though, and why did it just decide to come back to life like that? Since I mentioned boiling over, what is the advantage of having the plastic fender mounted overflow bottles? Mine leaks out of the cap and looks like hell I think.

The PO said the cast iron intake caused the carb / gas to boil, so he added the e-fan. Would an aluminum intake help with this? Would it help out with engine temps in general as well? When I pop the hood a rush of hot air hits you, more than I expected, even after sitting for a while. Thinking that this may be good justification for a teardrop hood. Is it all about the Crites hood or?

Are there any good and affordable longtube headers that don't hang down below the frame? If not, I may look into some cast shorties, but I do plan on intake and exhaust manifolds, maybe a cam though the (I assume) stock cam sounds pretty good too through dual glasspacks. I may try straight pipes and a crossover though, not sure yet. The exhaust blows water-carbon black mess all over my garage floor, especially out of the driver's side...not sure how normal this is. I'm no EPA / PETA / greenie freak, but I MAY consider adding some Magnaflow spun-cats to the exhaust when I tear into it just to clean it up for the garage. Already had to disable the carbon monoxide detector at the house.

I tend to run NGK iridium plugs. Is that a good plan in this motor as well? Gap?

I THINK the speedo gets about 6 MPH off up at 55 MPH, but seems close down at 25 MPH. The care doesn't seem to scream at an indicated 60-65 MPH but that's all I took her up to. What kind of (actual) sustained MPH is considered acceptable with a CoM trans? If I end up doing a swap, would a C6 be a good one to look into? Approximate cost? If I can live with the CoM, are there any mods, shift kits that I should plan for? I don't intend to tool along in this car, she's already getting the holeshot from every stop and romped on occasion.

I love that its original, but I am also considering an electronic ignition. Can anyone help advise me one way or the other and maybe suggest a kit? I've heard good things about Pertonix...

Is it alright to just run pump gas w/o any additives? I've been running 91-93 with up to 10% corn likker.

Thanks guys, I will have LOTS of questions, but I will try to keep them all in this thread so as to not bug the #hit out of everyone. Ordered me a 1963 MO plate for her this AM...pretty excited. She leaks out of every orifice so I have some work to do before getting too carried away with mods. I'm considering a tach, but not being a 4 speed, not sure how beneficial it would be.

[Yellow Truck]

Jackal,

It has been my experience on these types of forums that you get the best response if you ask one question at a time, or at least, keep the topic tight and the questions related to one topic. A lot of people will open your post, see how long it is, and close it.

I will give you some insight on the fuel/heat/hard restart problem. Fuel today is formulated for fuel injection cars with the pump submerged in the tank and high fuel pressure in the system. Vapour point is not critical as it was back when carbs ruled. Barry Rabotnick pointed this out to me recently, he used to work for Holly and knows a few things about this.

You can have the electric fan stay on longer after shut down, but you had better have a good battery. I don't think an aluminum intake will help, however some of them lack the exhaust cross over that is found in the stock intake. The exhaust cross over helps with cold running, so there are some consequences to removing it. I had the same issues with my 410 when I was running an iron intake. A one inch aluminum spacer helped quite a bit, but I still experienced some rough idle and poor throttle response coming off the highway if I hit a traffic light. At least with the spacer I never had it stall.

Since my engine is out and I'm building a 445 stroker for it I decided to run a bigger fuel line, and I'll use the old fuel line as a return and run some fuel back to the tank to keep the fuel in the lines cool.

[machoneman]

Good idea on one or so questions at a time. I'd.....check your stroke length 1st to see if it is a 390 since you said it's not the original engine.

http://www.wrljet.com/fordv8/fe.html

Pull a plug and with a wooden dowel down the hole, at BDC for that cylinder, mark the rod with a pen or marker. Roll that cylinder over by the crank bolt (not the starter!) and mark the rod at TDC. The difference can be checked against the stroke lengths noted above. 

[Drew Pojedinec]

Hey Jackal,
I'm deeproots from the FordMuscle forum.  Happy to see you finally got a Galaxie.

Heat soak issues and how I dealt with them:

-Insulated carburetor spacer.  I have a 1/4inch phenolic spacer and one of those Edelbrock 1/8inch heat insulating gaskets.
-Blocked exhaust crossover in the intake manifold
-Isolated fuel line from any and all sources of heat.  Mine actually enters the engine bay and goes directly to the carburetor, it is not clamped or attached to the engine at all
-Got rid of mechanical fuel pump and went to an electric pump.  This helped fill the bowls quickly and also made it to where I did not need to run the fuel line into the engine where invariably the lift pump would pick up some engine heat.

-Gap at .035 and go from there.

-Your 600cfm carburetor will most likely provide more power than your current 390 (or cruisomatic) can probably make/handle.  If in doubt, hook a vacuum gauge to the intake, go for a ride and do a few WOT slams.  See what the vac looks like.

-Electronic ignition?  it's great.  screw a kit.... for best performance and the ability to service/get parts in remote locations, go factory.  Duraspark distributor and either a Duraspark or an MSD box.  These will provide for jsut about any performance level and be simple to adjust.  Plus just about ever Autozone in the country has replacement parts.

-I have no issues with E10 fuel whatsoever that can't be dealt with easily

-Your battery is weak.  Replace it, or get a really good charger and charge it up properly.  I don't mean the 2amp sear special for $15.  I Have an optima charger, it's awesome.  I ran an older battery for to long, a new AGM style makes everything nicer.  Also of note, if you are running electric fans and a generator, that *might* be an issue. 

good luck,
Drew

[Jackal]

Thanks guys. I will look into these suggestions and so some research when I finally get some time. Thanks for the head start though!!!

[ScotiaFE]

Nice car! Welcome to the Club.
The car runs, don't take it all apart. Really.
Fix one issue at a time.
If you don't have a timing light, get one. Even a cheapo will do.
Clean up the timing marks on the damper and pointer and paint some white marks on them so you
can see them clearly with the light.
Set the timing at 10* to 12* BTDC at idle with the engine warm and the vacuum line disconnected from the dist and plugged.
As was said start the gap at .035" and you can even try .040". The more spark you make the better.
MAKE sure your engine grounds are good, clean and solid.
A fresh heavy duty Battery is always a good thing.
Make sure the gas tank is venting. Any vacuum in the tank will have you chasing things.
Have Fun!

[Jackal]

I noticed that my cap wasn't vented the other day. Found an OE style one and lots of other #hit I have to have from Dearborn, Summit, etc. Thanks for the tips guys. I'm also going to buck up for some offset shaft replacement bolts. I think a Crites teardrop and some rear leaf work is in order too.

[Yellow Truck]

-I have no issues with E10 fuel whatsoever that can't be dealt with easily

Drew,

I don't mean to pick an argument, but you listed all the things you did to solve your heat soak issue. The point about fuel is that back in 1963 none of that would have been necessary because the fuel didn't vaporize as easily. One of the reasons we need to do all those things is E10 fuel.

[Drew Pojedinec]

I don't mean to pick an argument, but you listed all the things you did to solve your heat soak issue. The point about fuel is that back in 1963 none of that would have been necessary because the fuel didn't vaporize as easily. One of the reasons we need to do all those things is E10 fuel.

You aren't picking an argument.  Let me repeat what I said for you so you can reread it.
"I have no issues with E10 fuel whatsoever that can't be dealt with easily"
If I said "I have no issues with E10 fuel whatsoever" and left it at that, I could see your line of thinking.

If you feel that adding a carb spacer, or an electric fuel pump is difficult, well... not much to say about that really.
While on subject, yes the fuel was different back then, but in they also didn't have the engines running twice the hp like we do, nor do they have the large tube headers, etc etc that contribute to higher underhood temperatures.


Jackal:
These fuel tanks have their own vent.  You'll notice it, port side toward the back of the fuel tank.  small 3/8 rubber hose connecting to a metal tube.  They are typically plugged with something and need to be blown/cleaned out.  Good luck!

[Jackal]

I'll check it out, thanks for the tip!

[Autoholic]

Since you all are on the topic (among other things) of fuel, I'd make sure your fuel lines are PTFE and fittings that work with whatever brand's fuel lines you go with. It's not just the ethanol in today's fuel you need to worry about, however alcohol will eat just about anything rubber. If you aren't running PTFE rated lines, you're taking a risk every time you start your engine.

[Yellow Truck]

Heat soak issues and how I dealt with them:

-Insulated carburetor spacer.  I have a 1/4inch phenolic spacer and one of those Edelbrock 1/8inch heat insulating gaskets.
-Blocked exhaust crossover in the intake manifold
-Isolated fuel line from any and all sources of heat.  Mine actually enters the engine bay and goes directly to the carburetor, it is not clamped or attached to the engine at all
-Got rid of mechanical fuel pump and went to an electric pump.  This helped fill the bowls quickly and also made it to where I did not need to run the fuel line into the engine where invariably the lift pump would pick up some engine heat.

I agree with the list, just not sure it all qualifies as "easy".

Autoholic - good point about PTFE. Since I'm running a new supply line I think I'll check over the few bits of old flexible hose left in the original line that I'm planning to use for the return.

[Jackal]

Thinking of adding an appropriate amount of Seafoam to the gastank and crankcase...thoughts? I'm not supposed to be using any additives am I? Wasn't this engine supposed to run leaded? What is the issue with unleaded in that scenario, valve seats?

[ScotiaFE]

The problem with Seafoam is it actually works.
And it can and will dislodge something you may not want floating around.
That chunk of debris, be it in the fuel tank or crankcase may find it's way
into the small workings and actually cause a jam.
As the AD says. Use at your own risk.

Unless you're towing heavy loads or really lugging the engine down, unleaded really does not hurt your engine that much.
You can have hard exhaust valve seats installed. Or buy heads with hard valve seats installed.
That pretty much deals with that problem.
I run and race what ever comes out of the pump. Not much choice here.

[Jackal]

Quick question, MSD has a $50 rebate and today only I have $50 off at O'Reilly auto. I am clueless on the electronic ignition stuff, but I don't want to miss out on the savings. I assume I will need / want to acquire an MSD AL6 or 6AL-2? Can anyone confirm? I can do homework on the rest, but assume a coil and new distributor needs to be acquired as well, but I want to at least get my $100 saving in today if possible. Appreciate the help!

ETA: MSD advised me to run the 6AL #6425

[fastback 427]

The msd stuff is very nice. 100 bucks off is a good deal. I have the 8594 distributor and it's a quality piece. Standard  6 al box is more than you need. Also if you want to save more money, just get a factory ford duraspark distributor.  They spin up to 8000 rpm on our distributor machine with no problems.

[Jackal]

While I haven't had time to research the MSD dist. vs. Duraspark, as long as it won't hurt performance I am all about saving some money on a Duraspark if that is the case, but where would I look for a re-curved Duraspark dist.? If I do run a Duraspark, do I need this MSD adapter?

http://www.msdperformance.com/Products/Accessories/Harnesses/8869_-_Cable_Assembly,_Amp_Female_To_Ford.aspx

Additionally, am I still good to run the Blaster SS coil or would I instead want a Blaster 2 coil? Thanks for all the help / patience guys. I am working 15+ hour days and trying to get this b!tch on the road at the same time. Ugh...

Bet this is a stupid question, but...will I still use a timing light to manually set initial timing with this setup? Do I need a "timing MAP" for the 6AL, or do I have to have it dyno tuned, or...

[Drew Pojedinec]

-For a lower performance model, I'd get the Autozone special, clean/fix and curve the distributor yourself.  For higher performance, call Faron
-I use that cable, it's a nice and clean install.
-I use the Blaster 2, have no experience with the other one but I imagine it'd be fine.  If you are really dollars pinched, there is nothing wrong with running the points for a little longer.  Another way to save a few is to use the Duraspark ignition box as well.  Just get a Ford one (should be about $70)

Yes, timing light for initial.
Scotty wrote this info years ago, it's worth a looksee:
http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/Duraspark_distributor_recurve_instructions_index.html

it is several pages and covers your future project.
Good luck
Drew

[jayb]

The Duraspark distributor pickup works directly with the MSD, just connect the wires like they show in the MSD instructions and go. 

You can get the stock Duraspark distributor recurved by Faron, who posts a lot on this forum.  Hopefully he sees this.

I'd defer to MSD on the coil.  If the MSD6 instructions say you can use the Blaster SS coil, should be no problem.  The instructions should be available on MSD's web site.

I like to set the ignition timing as total timing, rather than an initial value.  After you have the distributor curved you will know what RPM the advance is fully in at.  Disconnect the vacuum line to the distributor and rev the engine up a little past this RPM value, and then set the timing at 36 - 38 degrees for stock heads.  Then let the engine idle down and see where your timing is at idle.  Most of the time you'll see values in the 12-16 degree range.

[Jackal]

Thx again for the valuable info guys!

[Jackal]

I reached out to Faron on the dizzy.

Is this considered an acceptable ground for the elec. choke, looped back onto itself and grounded through the carb?

[gdaddy01]

The Duraspark distributor pickup works directly with the MSD, just connect the wires like they show in the MSD instructions and go. 

You can get the stock Duraspark distributor recurved by Faron, who posts a lot on this forum.  Hopefully he sees this.

I'd defer to MSD on the coil.  If the MSD6 instructions say you can use the Blaster SS coil, should be no problem.  The instructions should be available on MSD's web site.

I like to set the ignition timing as total timing, rather than an initial value.  After you have the distributor curved you will know what RPM the advance is fully in at.  Disconnect the vacuum line to the distributor and rev the engine up a little past this RPM value, and then set the timing at 36 - 38 degrees for stock heads.  Then let the engine idle down and see where your timing is at idle.  Most of the time you'll see values in the 12-16 degree range.

[gdaddy01]

do you plug the vacuum line back in and then the timing goes up to about 45 to 50 degrees ? the vacuum is not part of total timing ?

   

[Nightmist66]

I reached out to Faron on the dizzy.

Is this considered an acceptable ground for the elec. choke, looped back onto itself and grounded through the carb?

In a word, yes.

[jayb]

do you plug the vacuum line back in and then the timing goes up to about 45 to 50 degrees ? the vacuum is not part of total timing ?

Poor choice of words on my part, because the vacuum advance is a part of total timing.  I should have said initial advance plus centrifugal advance.  When you time the engine the vacuum line should be disconnected from the distributor, so that if you are running at an engine speed high enough that the centrifugal advance in the distributor is at maximum, you will see the initial (idle) advance plus the centrifugal advance in the distributor.  Adding in the vacuum advance will give you additional advance over what you timed the engine at.

[C6AE]

As Jay said, the vacuum advance is part of the total timing, but for a street car 45 + degrees will be fine at partial throttle or cruise and give you significantly better fuel economy. Roughly 20%. As soon as you approach WOT the vacuum advance will drop out and you will then be on the mechanical curve only.

do you plug the vacuum line back in and then the timing goes up to about 45 to 50 degrees ? the vacuum is not part of total timing ?

 

[gdaddy01]

As Jay said, the vacuum advance is part of the total timing, but for a street car 45 + degrees will be fine at partial throttle or cruise and give you significantly better fuel economy. Roughly 20%. As soon as you approach WOT the vacuum advance will drop out and you will then be on the mechanical curve only.
thanks guys , clears it up

do you plug the vacuum line back in and then the timing goes up to about 45 to 50 degrees ? the vacuum is not part of total timing ?

 

[gdaddy01]

THANKS GUYS , CLEARS IT UP

[Jackal]

...so far so good with a week on 5 oz. of Seafoam. In fact she seems to "get better" every time I driver her.

Checked some castings today. C3AE 9425 B intake and C3AE 6090 C heads. If I did my homework right, this is a 390-4v intake and 390 "high altitude" or 406 heads (if they have machined spring seats). Couldn't this also just mean that they are the standard 390-4v high CR head? With a valve job, how would these heads compare the something like Edelbrock Perf. heads?