Intro + New to FE building and some questions

[oldgal]

G'day!

Me.
I'm phil, 50 something and been building street and track cars and motors since I was a kid. I love building my own stuff and rarely pay anyone to do anything for me unless I don't have the equipment to do it. I would rather go buy the equipment than pay someone to do a job for me. When I was 25ish I needed a wheel alignment on a XW Falcon instead of booking it in I went to an estate sale and bought all the gear to do wheel alignments for $400, I still do my own wheel alignments with that gear to this day. My workshop is fairly well set up.

The project.
I have a number of projects on the go but the one of interest here is a '64 Galaxie 500 XL.  Factory 4V 390 4 speed car and fairly original survivor. I've had it about three years and on the road for about two years. I've been through the suspension, steering, brakes and general "make it nice to drive" stuff.  She does drive really nice and is a great cruiser but there's a few things that need attention;
The 390 has seen better days.  The exhaust sound was always "fluffy" out of the right bank and a compression test showed low compression on 3 & 4 that didn't improve with a wet test. #5 on the left bank was in similar shape so a freshen up was in order.
The clutch shudders like a kangaroo on speed and the gearbox jumps out of 2nd when you're off the throttle.

So coming into winter here, It's time for a little "shed time" with the Gal.  I got hold of a 428 that I am giving a freshen up before it goes in so far I've got hold of Edelbrock performer intake and heads and a Comp cams XE262H, I'll reuse the Sanderson shorties off the 390 too.  When the heads came off there was a lot of pitting in the bores and the pistons were sloppy. The bores measured around 4.135ish. 
Currently the block is with my machinist for rebore to whatever it cleans up at and deck, enough to square it up.  I don't know what pistons to get for it? should I be aiming for around 10:1 compression with this cam?  Intended use is as a cruiser with occasional long distance trips and an occasional run down the strip just to see how she performs.

Sorry for the long rant, but I do have some questions...

The motor is a '67 and I have a '64 bell and starter.  Will the 428 flywheel work with the '64 bell?  do I have to use a diaphragm clutch or will the early three lever type work?  What starter should I use, I don't know if my '64 type starter will work with the 428 flywheel.

Any and all replys welcome,
cheers,
Phil.

[Bolted to Floor]

Welcome to the crowd Phil.

[jayb]

I love building my own stuff and rarely pay anyone to do anything for me unless I don't have the equipment to do it. I would rather go buy the equipment than pay someone to do a job for me.

Welcome, Phil.  I'm with you on the do-it-yourself approach, that's how I ended up with my wire feed welder, my TIG welder, my paint booth, my machine tools, and on and on...

Stock bore on a 390 is 4.05".  If yours is really 4.135", someone has already bored it way out.  Most 390 blocks won't take more than an overbore of 0.060" without the cylinders getting real thin, so the first thing I'd do is have the block sonic checked to see what the wall thicknesses are.  You don't want to see wall thicknesses below 0.125".  If you do, you should consider acquiring a different block to start with.

There are some 390 blocks that will take a big overbore, so again you will find out what you have with a sonic check.  You may also have lucked into a 428 block there, which has a factory bore of 4.13".  If that turns out to be the case, congratulations!  428 blocks can be hard to find.

I'm afraid I won't be much help on the flywheel/starter/bell questions, since I've always used the later stuff, but I'm sure someone here will chime in with the information you need.  By the way, post some pictures of your car when you get a chance...

Edit - Oops, sorry, I didn't see that the block you were starting with was a 428.  My bad...

[Tom Gahman]

Hi Phil, I have used the new style starter and flywheel in the old style bell.
Also use the Long style pressure plate(3finger),which was used on early and late flywheels and bells.
Tom

[machone]

Phil, if you're going to use the 428 block then std bore is 4.13, so a .030 over piston should do the job.  You're located in Oz right?

[machone]

The edelbrock intake is an RPM or std performer(the RPM is better).  What heads are you using?
As for pistons flat tops or some with a slight dish, should give around the 10 or 9 point static comp.

[ScotiaFE]

Welcome Phil.
The 428 uses a 184 tooth flywheel and pretty much any starter from 63 and up will work.
The small flywheel was a 153 tooth.
You can NOT use the 390 flywheel on the 428. It will shake.
You can get a new steel 428 flywheel for a modest price in Yankee dollars.
Add more for international. 

If your top loader is popping out while slowing down it is most likely the detent.
You want the pointy detents. They hold better.
Got's to pull it apart for that. Easy gear box to rebuild though and not that costly in those Yankee dollars again.

[oldgal]

Welcome, Phil.  I'm with you on the do-it-yourself approach, that's how I ended up with my wire feed welder, my TIG welder, my paint booth, my machine tools, and on and on...

WOW...  paint booth, I am impressed!
Thanks for the reply Jay.

Welcome Phil.
The 428 uses a 184 tooth flywheel and pretty much any starter from 63 and up will work.
The small flywheel was a 153 tooth.
You can NOT use the 390 flywheel on the 428. It will shake.
You can get a new steel 428 flywheel for a modest price in Yankee dollars.
Add more for international. 

If your top loader is popping out while slowing down it is most likely the detent.
You want the pointy detents. They hold better.
Got's to pull it apart for that. Easy gear box to rebuild though and not that costly in those Yankee dollars again.

Thanks for the reply Scotia FE, 
I'm aware of the external balance thing requiring me to use the 428 flywheel. Do you know if ford six cyl starters will work, (just that I've got about 20 of them) or does it have to be BBF.  I think I have a clapper somewhwere.....

Sorry I should have mentioned, the gearbox is a T10.  I wish it were a top loader but alas no.  I'm thinking prolly a bearing on the lay shaft making it pop out of second, I'll go through the box when it comes out of the car.

Phil.

[oldgal]

Hi Phil, I have used the new style starter and flywheel in the old style bell.
Also use the Long style pressure plate(3finger),which was used on early and late flywheels and bells.
Tom

Excellent Tom,  When you say new style is that the clapper?  sory for the dumb questions FE stuff is new to me. no issues with clutch pedal height?

[oldgal]

The edelbrock intake is an RPM or std performer(the RPM is better).  What heads are you using?
As for pistons flat tops or some with a slight dish, should give around the 10 or 9 point static comp.

G'day Machone,  The intake is a performer and I got some new performer heads, maybe I should have gone the extra and got the RPM....   and yes mate I'm from Aus, here in (not so) sunny country Victoria.
Phil.

[oldgal]

Phil, if you're going to use the 428 block then std bore is 4.13, so a .030 over piston should do the job.  You're located in Oz right?

I'm hoping I can get away with .030 over but there were some pretty good ring rust bands where the motor was stationary for a looong time. and some deep score marks, below ring height from when the motor was started up after sleeping all that time.  My machinist should get back to me later this week with some news.

[66FAIRLANE]

Welcome to the board Phil. I am in Adelaide. There is a few of us Aussies on here. This is a great place with a wealth of knowledge shared and no BS. And yes, you should have bought the rpm. I have a clapper somewhere off my 390. I could take a few measurements and photos so you could compare it. I know what you mean. All those old clappers look very similar.

[Tom Gahman]

Phil, whats a clapper?
New or late style would be the starter without the bendix drive on the end of the shaft.
Tom.

[oldgal]

Welcome to the board Phil. I am in Adelaide. There is a few of us Aussies on here. This is a great place with a wealth of knowledge shared and no BS. And yes, you should have bought the rpm. I have a clapper somewhere off my 390. I could take a few measurements and photos so you could compare it. I know what you mean. All those old clappers look very similar.

G'day 66 Fairlane!  Nice ride mate, is she running FE?, built or stock?   Thanks for the clapper info if you can find it.  I pulled two out of my junk pile but I don't know what they're out of.
Phil.

[oldgal]

Phil, whats a clapper?
New or late style would be the starter without the bendix drive on the end of the shaft.
Tom.

G'day Tom,  The clapper is a style of starter that was common on a lot of early to mid 60's American cars. similar to later starters without the solenoid on the side/top.  The clapper has a tin cover that runs down the side of the starter that covers the throwout mechanism but still with remote solenoid. A lot smaller than the earlier bendix type but not as small as later "solenoid on the side" type.
I don't know if I got all the facts straight but that's how I see it.
Cheers,
Phil.