390 Stroker on the Dyno

[jayb]

We ran this engine one more time today in its current configuration, prior to the next "experiment".  Here is a video of the dyno pull:

http://youtu.be/-fN8KkLvT-4

Peak torque this time was 550 foot pounds, and peak horsepower was 549.  For what it is, this is a really strong engine.

Quite a while back, the guys building the engine thought it would be cool to make it rat-roddish.  They bought some parts that were popular back in the day, but thankfully I and some others talked them out of using them.  But there they were, sitting on the shelf, and curiosity got the best of me I'm afraid ( ), so I had them bring these pieces over so that we could dyno the engine with them, just to see.  As I understand it, these parts are referred to as the "Poor Man's Tunnel Ram":





Just looking at this setup cracks me up.  It took us an hour and a half to work out the throttle linkage issues, but finally we got everything set and did the dyno pull.  Ed "Big Daddy" Roth was attending in spirit   As expected, with these things (whatever the hell they are) on the engine, it was down on power, but not by as much as I'd figured it would be.  That is, until the engine hit 6100 RPM.  At that point the engine started to pop and stutter, and barely made it to 6400 RPM.  The horsepower and torque graph tells the tale:



I just can't even imagine what's going on in the intake tract with these things on the engine, but at the end of dyno session, the guys were kind enough to give them to me, for the wall of shame LOL! Maybe I can use them somehow in the plumbing in my house, and at least I can cross this dyno test off my bucket list.  The overachieving engine is off the dyno now, and slated to go into the '64 Galaxie soon, I hope.  Should be a great combination...

[country63sedan]

Lately, I've been thinking about putting some of those "tubes" on an Edelbrock cross ram. It could be an fe version of the old Dodge cross ram 413. I still don't think it would get to the inner fenders like those were  Don't have parts for any of it, just one of those goofy thoughts in my head. Later, Travis.

[Qikbbstang]

No wonder the power plummeted at 6,200 they're supposed to go in-line! ............... Just kidding but fill us in on the details are the Poor Man's Tunnel-Rams divided into runners or just a big plenum?.......Astonishing how they made power to a point then died.

[jayb]

Just a big, open plenum.  Pretty weird performance characteristic, all right.

[Barry_R]

Can't remember what those were originally made for - but I've seen them.

I do remember a friend having a cast "V" shaped deal that converted a single 4 bbl intake into a dual quad.  I bet that would be a strange critter on a dyno as well....

[RJP]

Nothing is totally worthless....you can use one of those to move your toilet over a few inches.

[blykins]

I can honestly say I've never seen a combination like that before. 

[Lenz]

Good thing it isn't productive, talk about distracted driving.  Can you imagine trying to see around that setup while cruising down the interstate?  Or maybe you're just supposed to look under it.....

[Joe-JDC]

Here is a test with those adapters on Ted Eaton's dyno last year.  http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2014/01/17/y-block-ford-dual-quad-testing-on-aluminum-heads-part-ii/

Check it out.  Joe-JDC

[Heo]

A question for those who know. What et will this engine
do in a stock wheight -64 Galaxie

[NIsaacs]

This might give you an estimate if you know the car weight.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrSbhDwiP1Uz5IABsBXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzc2R1aDNrBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMzBHZ0aWQDVklQNTgyXzEEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1425930609/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2frobrobinette.com%2fet.htm/RK=0/RS=Tr7df_hDFtvllNHcCnZPPCb2woI-

Nick

[jayb]

Here is a test with those adapters on Ted Eaton's dyno last year.  http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2014/01/17/y-block-ford-dual-quad-testing-on-aluminum-heads-part-ii/

Check it out.  Joe-JDC

Wow, that is interesting that those things actually helped on a low end intake manifold.  He says that the combination is still way down on power compared to a good intake by itself, though.  I doubt he would get the same results if he stuck them on a good intake.

[machoneman]

Here is a test with those adapters on Ted Eaton's dyno last year.  http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2014/01/17/y-block-ford-dual-quad-testing-on-aluminum-heads-part-ii/

Check it out.  Joe-JDC

Wow, that is interesting that those things actually helped on a low end intake manifold.  He says that the combination is still way down on power compared to a good intake by itself, though.  I doubt he would get the same results if he stuck them on a good intake.

I think a passage from this Chrysler site on the old Sonoramic (1st non-Hemi cross-ram) intake make help explain why the Offy adaptors help the low end....and not so much the top end.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I had to have this whole thing explained to me slowly before I got to the stage where I could at least give the appearance of knowing what's going on. But the way I understand it, it works much like water flowing through a pipe in that the water wants to keep moving even after a valve or faucet is closed. Sometimes, water even hammers when it begins to pile up against the valve. In the SonoRamic Commando, the fuel/air mixture in one of the tuned arms of the manifold works in the same fashion; it wants to keep moving even though the mixture is obstructed by the closed intake valve. The fuel/air mixture is literally "rammed" up against the closed intake valve of the engine, instantly available to charge the combustion chamber when the valve comes open. This is the "Ram" part.

The "Sono" comes from that compression wave that the service manual talked about. Those 30-inch passages were carefully designed to maximize the resonant effect of that compression wave so that it hits that intake valve at the very instant it is opening. This provides an additional force to push more of the fuel/air mixture into the combustion chamber until the valve closes.

The kicker in this equation is that the passage length of the manifold directly affects the rpm range at which the optimum boost is achieved. Since these compression waves move at some 1100 feet per second, if you want your maximum boost at the middle range of engine operation, the tubes have to be longer for the wave to take more time to get out and back in sync with a intake valve opening to give maximum boost at 2800 rpm. If you want that engine to scream at 5000-5500 rpm, the passages have to be shorter as you want that wave to get out and come back quicker.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/sonoramic.html

[Joe-JDC]

No, the results would not be as dramatic on the regular 8V intake.  What those adapters did was cover the low end torque loss with poor fuel distribution from the hogged out plenums.  Anyone who thinks it is cool to open up a plenum on a dual plane 8V intake should be very careful.  It ruined that intake for use.  What someone thinks will work like a single plane intake, does not work the same when modifying a dual plane plenum.  Also, cutting the divider out of a dual plane will drop the torque down over the same intake with the divider left in place.  We lost 12-14 ftlb torque with two ported intakes that were very similiar except for the divider.  That was a tiring 3 day testing session, but very gratifying!

On edit, if you read down to the bottom of the article, you will see that the adapters lost 26hp on the best intake combination.  Down from 378hp to 352hp.   Joe-JDC

[cammerfe]

Joe, many years ago---1968 or thereabouts---I put together a 427 for my '67 Cougar. I scrounged for parts and chose an 'XE' Sidewinder for an intake manifold. In order to fit Low-Riser heads it had been filled at the bottoms of the runners/head interfaces and although cast with an open plenum it had had a fore/aft divider welded in. The engine used a new 'AA' cam and very high compression due to the pop-up pistons I used because they were available for the right price. I put in a water injection system because even 260 Sunoco tended to want to crackle.

The manifold was 'bootie' from support for John Corrunker's Super 'E' automatic CJ Mustang. We held the MPH end of the NHRA record for most of that season.

The combo, in my XR7 GT Cougar, was massively torque-y. In fact, I had the opportunity to have several street face-offs with street hemis in various 'Cudas and so on and had no trouble getting a fender-length or two on all of them.

KS