FE Block Filler

[plovett]

To bad you can't leave it at the place that is casting your intake adapters and have them do a short pour of aluminum in place of hard block when they are doing thier next castings. Jim

I was JUST thinking the same thing.  I was also thinking to myself that this sounds "retarded", but also thinking to myself 'does it really?"  I'm not sure and was thinking of bringing it just for the sake of discussion.  In any case you said it first.  Why not pour molten aluminum into your block?   I'm guessing you would need to heat up the block first?   Pour it in and let it cool.   Rotate and repeat on the other side?

Is there a physical reason not to do this?  Warping the block?  Expense?   

Just a thought,

paulie

[MeanGene]

Riolo has been around for a long time, used to see him running with the original Pro Gas 9.50 class at Sacramento in his 55, along with Bob Bunker, Wayne Torkleson's blown SOHC then blown B9 Bird, the Yuill Brothers etc. Pretty well respected builder. My neighbor's speed shop has been around since the early 70's, and his builder does a lot of very successful block fills with HardBlok, has a vibration setup (that's what real concrete contactors use to settle mud) to get a clean, solid fill with no pockets- he has it down pretty well. You can cover up a lot of sins if you can get a solid sleeve in there centered and straight, and mud 'er up

[jayb]

To bad you can't leave it at the place that is casting your intake adapters and have them do a short pour of aluminum in place of hard block when they are doing thier next castings. Jim

I was JUST thinking the same thing.  I was also thinking to myself that this sounds "retarded", but also thinking to myself 'does it really?"  I'm not sure and was thinking of bringing it just for the sake of discussion.  In any case you said it first.  Why not pour molten aluminum into your block?   I'm guessing you would need to heat up the block first?   Pour it in and let it cool.   Rotate and repeat on the other side?

Is there a physical reason not to do this?  Warping the block?  Expense?   

Just a thought,

paulie

Just getting the foundry to pour the normal intake adapter castings is difficult enough.  They are a production shop, and wouldn't be interested in doing one-off kind of stuff.  Besides, I think the block would warp all to hell by pouring 1300 degree aluminum into it, and you'd have to somehow feed it in through the water jacket holes at the top of the block to get it to fill properly.  Not really possible, I don't think. 

When I build MY FE block ( ) I'll leave more aluminum in it, for offset boring and also to eliminate the need to hard-blok.

[machoneman]

Check out the whole Donovan website...not just the link posted below:

http://www.donovanengineering.com/Videos/VideoGallery.html

Long ago (before they did billet blocks) I did read an article about DE planning a 'master' blank block that easily could be machined into a BBC or Donovan/Arias 417 (392 Hemi replica) or even another make. Anyway, since they have a source of billet blanks large enough, maybe they could sell you a chunk for the new JB Billet FE Cammer block!   

[runthatjunk]

I would vote for am epoxy type of filler.  seems to me it would be more likely to "stick"to the block and sleeves, making it a little more solid with the movement of the aluminum expansion.

however its just theory for me as I have no experience in these matters.

[Qikbbstang]

By now I suppose Jay's gone with something. However, I found this company's offerings interesting with such a wide range of products. Problem is who wants their project to be guinea pig? 


http://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/index.htm

[FERoadster]

Jay: as far as a Billet block. If I remember correctly Kirkham had a video of a CNC FE block about 18 months ago.

Richard

[ScotiaFE]

Jay: as far as a Billet block. If I remember correctly Kirkham had a video of a CNC FE block about 18 months ago.

Richard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KLNJ8d8Vqc

Personally I think Kirkham is full of shit.
Reading his responses to his youtube you would think the FE was a piece of junk and had so many problems
that only his complete waste of material engine block was some kind of FE saviour.
When in reality any one of the after market blocks available today are better than his Swiss cheese hunk of aluminum and much cheaper and stronger.
He used an off the shelf bar of 6061 T6 and said he had it custom forged. I call bullshit. He bought a few chunks of bar and milled them.
His block is so far from an FE let alone a 427. It can not be counted as even a reasonable after market block. 
Because you can do something does not mean you should.


David Kirkham1 year ago
in reply to swasey1952
Thanks for some great comments. The block dyno'd at something like 630 horse power. It has run several track days going all out--all day--with no problems. Many blocks have water between the sleeves (F1 blocks are made like this). Like most things, there are advantages and disadvantages to blocks with siamesed bores and blocks with water around the bores. We chose to have wet sleeves to improve the cooling (a problem in FE motors). Thanks

David Kirkham3 years ago
in reply to Rylander88
@Rylander88 The girdle is very stiff. You can do also do away with two of the old straight seals for the rear main cap which always leak. We got the idea looking at F1 engines.

I have no problem with cooling or rear main seal leaking.

He does make some nice Cobra bodies though, I'll give him that.

[fe66comet]

Why at this point would you not do a full filled block? The integrity of the block is in question at the levels you are at and the block has also been machined to the point of being compromised anyhow. I would say at this point it is a drag only part due to the extensive machining and HP levels you are after anyhow. Really I think you have hit the cross rod between drag specific and street use anyhow as the engine at this point is being squeezed to its max potential with that block. Further than that I would start looking into a custom CNC billet part as an upgrade or maybe one of the current casting molds could be modified with heavier walls and deck by one of the manufacturers like Dove. At some point you would reach a feasible ceiling with your current block and have to consider a improved version as a option I would think.

[jayb]

I agree with Howie, that Kirkham block looks pretty fragile to me.  And Jon, I'm nowhere near the HP potential of the Shelby block; Shelby says its good for 1500 HP and I'll bet its good for a lot more than that.  Also, my opinion on race-only stuff is its for somebody who lives close to a track.  I don't, I run all my engines on the street, and filling the block all the way would probably prevent me from doing that.

[Qikbbstang]

Perhaps Jay could just switch to E85 and not have to worry about block cooling - that's a joke!
    I wished I'd taken a video of Pro/Street car that showed up to the cruise-in the other night. What a disaster the car had a stout BBC on E85 and open down-turned headers perfectly aimed to kick up clouds of dust/dirt infuriating all with spotless cars and those left choking and blinded by the dust for 50ft from both sides of the car. When I looked closely at the cars modern fuel dragster butterfly-less scoop I could see right down the throat of a Holley HP and large sections of intake manifold through gapping holes around the carb -- Real smart kick up  a dust storm and run no air filter.  Imagine the problems of running E85 in a carb'd street car.

[fe66comet]

Why would you need to go crazy with the block strength? Filling the block to add the stability needed for big numbers but the block is rated higher anyhow. If a certain area is compromised an option would be to cut that area out and patch it. I have seen this done on heavy equipment castings then they re-machine or also grind the area and fill with weld and do the same. It does however cause soft and hard spots as any welding operation will but very effective on weld able metal like aluminum. I have had many castings modified this way also like heads and blocks, even with cast iron to make port work possible. In many instances I have found removing metal and starting with a fresh patch makes repairs much easier. 

[sumfoo1]

so when i bolted my bare block to the dyno... it didn't make any horsepower so 630 is pretty impressive.


but then i really thought you needed pistons heads cam etc to make hp? Just imagine what that kirkham block could do with all those goodies.


/sarcastic troll voice.

[fe66comet]

Weren't we talking engine blocks and potential solutions to repair castings? Hmm we already covered e85 months ago.

[cjshaker]

I'd have to agree with Jay that the block is nowhere near its full potential. It could probably handle 2000hp if built properly. There are plenty of BBC and 385 blocks making that kind of power for street use that aren't any stronger than that Shelby block. Full filling the block just makes it an unusable piece on anything but a 1/4 mile at a time. A partial fill and sealer will be plenty good enough. Remember, the block did not cause any issues, the rod did.