HP VS Torque

[BH107]

Here are the generic specs Barry gave on his engine from last year. The numbers at EMC were quite a bit higher than what he achieved with his dyno going in.

"This years rules call for 11.5:1 compression, hydraulic roller cams, an RPM band from 3000 to 7000 RPM. We must run a 4150 flange throttle body or carb, along with a host of other rules. Only one class this year.

I built another 433 inch package - working within some significant time and budget constraints. The crank is a Ford steel offset ground to 3.640 stroke and the 6.70 rods are both items I already owned. I also re-used the tricked up Blue Thunder dual plane intake from a prior year.

I am running my head castings this time - for promotional reasons. These are the first set I've had with full porting and a CNC program run on them. They actually flow really well, with peaks of 369cfm at around .700 lift. But the port position for both intake and exhaust are pretty low (they are normal medium riser heights) and the sizes rather large for the EMC type of event - where the BT high risers are near perfect.

The block is unique - one of two short deck Genesis blocks they cast, with a deck height of 9.90. An advantage in certain racing categories but really just a curiosity here.

We are running EFI, which looks pretty cool on the dual plane intake.

Rules mandated an oil pan with a sump - I have one from a 391 Ford truck - probably a garbage truck or something - that should get some attention among all the trick billet stuff.

I've run a couple different cams on this one and the smaller one - 236@.050 and .713 lift with 1.9 rockers will make a bigger EMC score with torque peaks of 574. The larger one with 244@.050 and .724 lift made more horsepower with a peak of 668. Since the scores are close - within 20 points - I'm leaving the big one in 'cuz it looks better in print. "

[fe66comet]

That is an impressive package if I say so myself, what kind of fuel are you running and what octane? I would like to higher compression but not sure how far I can go before going to E85? I have a friend that runs a 429 @ 12:1 but clatters like a loose muffler clamp on pump gas. He uses aviation fuel @109 octane but has to drive three towns away to get it and at 9 bucks a gallon it is pricy to say the least. He does however pump out over 600 hp on the chassis  dyno, he won't give exact numbers but it definitely has the power as he snapped a 31 spline forged Currie axle on slicks. Honestly if I get to 650 hp I will be a happy camper, that should be more than the vehicle can control with a tremec T-56 and a short wheelbase of 128" . I am hoping to get it lightened up to 3200 or so with glass panels. And tubular front end.

[blykins]

You are going to be a very sad camper.   You will have nowhere near 650 hp.   Seriously man, you need to change a lot of stuff...trying to be straight up with you. 

I still haven't figured out why you think you would even be anywhere in the realm of 650 hp.....?

[BH107]

That is an impressive package if I say so myself, what kind of fuel are you running and what octane? I would like to higher compression but not sure how far I can go before going to E85? I have a friend that runs a 429 @ 12:1 but clatters like a loose muffler clamp on pump gas. He uses aviation fuel @109 octane but has to drive three towns away to get it and at 9 bucks a gallon it is pricy to say the least. He does however pump out over 600 hp on the chassis  dyno, he won't give exact numbers but it definitely has the power as he snapped a 31 spline forged Currie axle on slicks. Honestly if I get to 650 hp I will be a happy camper, that should be more than the vehicle can control with a tremec T-56 and a short wheelbase of 128" . I am hoping to get it lightened up to 3200 or so with glass panels. And tubular front end.

Barry has been helping you with this, he should be able to answer your questions since its his engine.

[mike7570]

128" is not a short wheel base.  A 66 comet wheel base is 116", did you move something to get it to 128"?

[fe66comet]

No it is going into an extended cab ranger with glass box sides,doors, fenders, hood and bumpers. Also putting a tubular K member in it. The Comet I am doing a 580 cube 385 series. I ran across an aftermarket block with a 4.5 forged Scat stroker crank. Guy lost his job needed fast cash, yummy for me LOL. Never liked that guy anyhow.

[fastback 427]

I have enjoyed reading this thread, lots of good info. It seems that jon has set the bar high with his current parts. I was wondering what would have to be changed to get to 675-700 hp? Cam and compession? Hotrod magazine had the Joe Sherman 428 build where he made 605 hp with basic bolt on parts and 4.25 crank. There is a thread obout that on the other fe forum. At the end of it Keith Kraft says it should be easy, we got iron headed 10.8 compression 440 c.i. making 740 hp through a 735 carb. I know that a pro stock fe is a way different animal, I think they measure duration in days not @.50.   Either way I'd like to see jon hit that big number.

[fe66comet]

It looks like I would have to go to a solid roller but I hate to ditch the hydraulic rollers I have now. There was a discussion here about whether you could uses a hydraulic lifter on a solid camshaft. I think one issue is clearance on the ramp as the lifter is designed for a lower lift. I looked at Barry's  cam selections and he does have one with something like 649/650@114*. I wonder is it would work with my lifters? Compression wise I can have the heads milled a little more when I get the stage 3 port and chamber work as the heads will have to be resized anyhow, question is when does compression become a hinderence with premium Shell gas?

[blykins]

With the right cam, tune, and 93 octane, you should be able to approach 11:1. 

Considering the fact that you already have T&D race rockers, I would go with a solid roller cam. 

Regardless, you will still need a lot more inches, more compression, and a healthy cam to get to 675 hp. 

[fe66comet]

On the other thread I have going I am thinking a 254/260 670/670 @114* camshaft. Compression  I cam adjust with a head gasket also. 11:1 would be nice for sure and the computer also adjusts timing somewhat for detonation with a knock sensor.

[blykins]

Wait until you get the heads before you buy the cam.  The flow will dictate the duration and the flow vs lift numbers will dictate the cam lift.  If you run a decent cam with .670 gross lift, by the time you adjust for valve lash, you're only at .650-.660".

[fe66comet]

That is what I thought as most solid cams run .020 or so. I have solid cams in all our tractors. The Ford N series, Allis Chalmers and John Deere two cylinders run that way. My 26 Chrysler runs a little tighter @.015.

[fe66comet]

I have been thinking again ( dangerous) maybe do the injection, leave the camshaft and have the heads done. Then I can see where I am at and chance the cam later as I already have it installed. Can't hurt to run it and see what happens, changing the cam is not a big deal afterwards. I will prep the heads for future clearance for more lift. I have beehive springs so I might be already there and the rate was 375 if I recall. I can always add a rev kit to hold things down also later on. Either way I want to keep things around 2500- 6500 after that I will have to do further machine work on the bottom end which I wish I would have done to begin with but at the time did not know better. My though on that is a main girdle to pull off the walls and support the weak webbing. Another factor is how light I get the truck, as there is only so much I can put to the ground with only a few hundred pounds back there and a four link. I did a S10 with a buddy @ 400 hp and stock suspension with snubber bars, it was hard to control even with a locker and automatic trans.

[blykins]

If you switch cams later to a solid roller, you'll have to change everything including the springs, retainers, cups, and everything.   Solid roller spring pressures can approach 250-300 lb seat and 600-650 open.

Rev kit?

I think you need to familiarize yourself with the FE architecture before you go any further.  This isn't a sbc.

[fe66comet]

The installed height I have now is 1.9, I am not aware of a taller spring than that. I used the softer of the two available Comp Cams beehive springs available. The most I would have to do is change the springs to the heavier 450 rate spring. The head is already set up for the 670 lift camshaft. As far as a rev kit a universal kit would work but really I would only be after more spring rate. I will never spin the engine past 7 grand either way so a huge spring is really not necessary anyhow.