My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!

[Heo]

When you turn of a hot engine. The heat transfers to the water
that expands, that extra volym of the water must go somewere
The hot water is lighter than cold water so wen cirkulation stops
the hot water rises in to the degasbottle(expansion tank).
Probably the SOHC have more water in it than the stock Saleen
engine therefore there is not room enough in the degasbottle
In the begining there was a big tank in the top of the radiator
where the water expanded into and no pressure cap. think Model T
If you turn of a Model T, After a while it starts boiling in the top tank
in the radiator so you loose water through the overflow tube and
the radiatorcap

[cobracammer]

I agree.  I will add coolant as the car needs it, but I will not fill the degas bottle to the "Fill Line" marked on the bottle.  I will leave plenty of room for the coolant to expand and fill the bottle.  Hopefully It will always leave a little coolant in the bottle when it cools so I will always know if the engine needs a little more added.

I did notice that the fill line on the degas bottle is about 1/2 from the top.  Once that coolant gets hot, and the water pump stops circulating, it very easily overflows.  Good call.  I will just fill the degas bottle a little at a time until it doesn't seem to be sucking coolant into the system anymore (While car is running)...  as long as I have a little bit in the tank (just to make sure I'm topped off), that's when I will stop and put the cap back on.

New Radiator and fans all arrive Friday!

[My427stang]

Ross.....  Take it easy on the "teacups" while your visiting the magic kingdom  LOL

Over 3500 hours of flight time, lots of it yanking and banking in the early years, and these rides still make me sick 

I will say though, the one that most feels like a fighter is the Rockin Rollercoaster, the way that one is designed is very comfortable for me, both positive and negative Gs feel very natural.  The rest, not so much, and the teacups, no f-in way, not even trying LOL

[Barry_R]

Ross.....  Take it easy on the "teacups" while your visiting the magic kingdom  LOL

Over 3500 hours of flight time, lots of it yanking and banking in the early years, and these rides still make me sick 

I will say though, the one that most feels like a fighter is the Rockin Rollercoaster, the way that one is designed is very comfortable for me, both positive and negative Gs feel very natural.  The rest, not so much, and the teacups, no f-in way, not even trying LOL

Teacups at Disneyworld bring back some bad vibes...

I have three daughters - last time I was there they had me ride in those dang things 3 or 4 times in a row.  Lunch was not sitting well on the last go around.  With 3 little girls I did not care what a sunburned bald fat guy looked like while spinning around in a fiberglass china cup with princess pictures all around

Now - the "small world" ride or the "Tiki Room" should/could be banned by the Vienna conventions.

[cobracammer]

HAHAHA  Good times.  Glad to hear you sound to be having fun  :0)

Disney not known for being very P. C Barry. Lol. Those rides have "tortured" us all!

[cobracammer]

OK doing more reading (sometimes this gets dangerous)....  It is my understanding that the coolant in almost every engine needs to continually circulate within the block until it reaches operating temperature.  Once it reaches operating temp (about 180 F) then it is directed through the radiator for cooling.

My question is (still)  ....

I start the car.  The coolant in the radiator  (and the degas bottle since its tied into the lower hose) is pumped out of the lower radiator hose into the engine block and heads to absorb heat.  However, once the coolant in the radiator is drained by the pump (because the thermostat on the intake manifold is closed at this point....  the water pump is not pumping anything (nor is it continually circulating within the block).  It would seem that the water pump (at this point) is just running dry.  The coolant is sitting in the block (not circulating) and just heating up until the thermostat opens at 180 degrees.  At this time, the hot coolant runs down the radiator, and can be sucked up by the water pump again.

I keep reading about bypasses which allow the hot coolant to just keep re-circulating through the engine block (not just sitting stagnant heating up) until the thermostat opens.  I see that on FE water pumps, there seems to be a fitting on the back of the water pump (as well as one on the side/top).  I have both of these plugged with pipe plugs.  The one on the back appears to be a bypass fitting that is supposed to go to a nipple on the front of the FE intake manifold, but the cammer engine does not have this provision.  Does it need to be added?  LOL 

I also read that the drilling of a 3/16 hole in the thermostat itself is a kind of bypass (in addition to letting out any air pockets which has been stated earlier).  This doesn't seem right though because it would not recirculate hot coolant, but rather allow small amounts of coolant to go through the radiator and then down to the water pump.

When I look up videos of Cammer engines, I don't see anyone using a bypass hose off of the back of the water pump.  Maybe I am just not getting it  LOL  maybe the coolant doesn't need to circulate and is just fine getting hot "stationary" until the thermostat opens.  :0)

I now understand that the Ford 4.6 Modular did this through the funky thermostat housing and the coolant bypass fitting on the top of the block. 

Just seems weird that once the cool coolant is pumped from the radiator when the engine is started, that the water pump would just run dry until the thermostat opens....?

[cobracammer]

also thinking that the FE water pump has 2 "feet" that mount to the block/timing cover....  possible that it pumps coolant from passenger side bank to drivers side bank (or visa versa) while running until the coolant comes down through the radiator? 

[Heo]

No the pump is not running dry beacuse the block is
allready full with water before you start the engine.
 So the pump cant pump any coolant from the rad.
actualy if you look in the radiator you can see that the level
go down slightly when you start the engine or when
you rev up the engine before the thermostat have
opened. So what the pump is doing is building
a slight pressure in the block. On a ordinary FE
you have the bypass so you got some amount
of cirkulation in the block.
They say you dont need the bypass but i havent
tried that myself.

[cobracammer]

I gotcha.  Makes me feel better.  Thanks Heo

[Nightmist66]

If there is a heater core still hooked up, the water pump-to-intake bypass hose can be eliminated because the heater core essentially  works as a large bypass. Since you don't have the heater core hooked up yet Jason, this doesn't apply. However, I believe you posted somwhere earlier about drilling the t-stat. If you drilled three holes in it iirc, then you should be fine with that. Also when you are burping air from the cooling system do you leave the cap off until you shut it off? What I like to do is when it looks like the degas tank is not taking anymore coolant, then put the cap on and let it bleed it self the rest of the way. Also with the cap on, the pressure from the cap will help to increase the boiling point until things get settled. I also like to run a bottle of Water Wetter, or in your case Royal Purple ice for extra peace of mind. It sounds like your new rad. and fan setup should do the trick though. 

[foxlincoln]

If you have ever taken a heater hose off and started the motor,you will see why bypass hose is 5/8 of an inch.It will drain an engine in seconds.Since no one has answered my question about weather they had T-stats or restrictor plate,I think they had a plate with about 1/2 inch hole  or bigger.Can't see Ford allowing a water pump to dead head.There has to be somebody out there with an answer to my question.I can see holes drilled in a t-stat to bleed out air,not to act as a bypass.So the engine has 2 bypass hose if you include the heater hose.Remember the bypass still works when the t-stat is open.

[cobracammer]

Just a small update.  Since the fans and radiator are supposed to arrive tomorrow, I went ahead and started prepping.  Before I started, I removed the FAST ECU as well as the MSD box (just unplugged both from Harness).  Then I disconnected the battery to make sure when I removed the fan electrical it didnt spark of short.

Then I removed the Degas bottle from the shroud, as well as the power steering reservoir.  Then I removed the OEM Shroud top (the one I cut off the original fan assembly because it mounts the 2 reservoirs.  Finally I disconnected the upper radiator hose and the lower radiator hose.... and the P/S cooler line that bolts to the back of the radiator.

Disconnected the dual fans electrical and removed the dual fan/shroud assembly.... then out came the radiator.  If im not mistaken, I need the mounting hardware from the stock one to transfer to the new one.

I didnt really pay attention the first go around, but the stock radiator is sooooo thin (about 3/4" wide).  1 row radiator and the tanks on the sides are plastic! Yikes!

the new radiator is all aluminum, and about 5" wide.  Cant wait.

I also think before I installl the new setup, I want to retime the engine.  Its currently running beautifully at 20 degrees initial timing, but I am not able to turn the distributor back any further to get down to 13 degrees.

I am going to have to roll it back over to 13 degrees BTDC again and pull out the distributor and re-position the rotor.  Not such a big deal at this point as I now have experience doing this a few times.

I am not sure if I will have to run a new base tune with the new timing setting, but I think I will set it back up at 20 degrees again, but with room to move the distributor counterclockwise (thanks Ross  LOL).  this way I know the car will start right up and run at 20, and I can slowly adjust it back to 13 degrees and be able to check it with the timing light.

I saved all of the coolant from the radiator.  Its all still beautifully clean.... and in addition, there are 2 bottles of Royal Purple ICE coolant additive in there, so figured it would be great to fill the new system back up.

I have also gotten rid of the Saleen thermostat housing (yes, after all of that!) and fitted my inline fitting I made when I had the degas bottle linked into the top radiator hose.  Its actually perfect!, and in addition to the fit, It will allow me to reconnect the P/S pump belt.... and once again have power steering.

Another TidBit.... the squeal you hear in my videos is my belts.  I seem to have the incorrect size on there.  I actually need 7/16" wide belts, but am having trouble finding both in the exact sizes I need.  The alternator is 41" and the Power steering is 45.5"....  Ill keep looking, but the squeal is fine for now  LOL

[jayb]

If you have ever taken a heater hose off and started the motor,you will see why bypass hose is 5/8 of an inch.It will drain an engine in seconds.Since no one has answered my question about weather they had T-stats or restrictor plate,I think they had a plate with about 1/2 inch hole  or bigger.Can't see Ford allowing a water pump to dead head

Actually, I read somewhere that at 7500 RPM or so the factory Ford SOHC water pump would generate pressures up to 90 psi in the water jackets of the block and heads.  So I don't think they had a restrictor plate with a big hole in it.  In addition, the intake manifolds are cut with a recess where the water neck bolts on, that fits a standard thermostat.  My guess would be that Ford used a modified thermostat, but I have never taken apart an original SOHC intake with water neck, so I don't know for sure what was used.

[ScotiaFE]

Another TidBit.... the squeal you hear in my videos is my belts.  I seem to have the incorrect size on there.  I actually need 7/16" wide belts, but am having trouble finding both in the exact sizes I need.  The alternator is 41" and the Power steering is 45.5"....  Ill keep looking, but the squeal is fine for now  LOL

Rub a bar of soap on the belts and it will cure the squeal.

[cobracammer]

Soap it is! (For now)  LOL  Tracking packages....  radiator and fans are out for delivery.  I have to say again, I am super surprised at the size of the OEM radiator for the Saleen.  The thing literally looks to be as wide as the width of a piece of bread.  Stock Sallen is supposed to have close to 300 HP (almost) stock.  With a radiator like that, the stock fan must have been a monster to suck out heat! (It was a spal- like curved blade fan though)

Also, just to keep everyone in the loop (and at this point I trust this forum more than any tech support) I called FAST back.  I took notes of what the handheld values were in my engine idle video and went over them with the tech (William).  He said that all the values appear as they should at idle.  Perfect!!!

I also asked him about the cracking of the throttle blades (manually) so that the car start at the turn of the key.  I did this and it worked perfectly, but then after the warm up cycle, it has me manually close the throttle blades a little to get the A/F mixture exactly on target....  Well this unfortunately un-does what I did to get the car to start up without touching the gas pedal.

William explained again that its because I am using a Dual Quad setup....  computer knows I have 2 throttle bodies, but doesn't have the programming to deal with 2 (Um.....  R & D didn't work on this before they put it out to Market?  LOL  )

Anyway, He said I can keep screwing with it to get it close, or its completely fine to tap the throttle upon cranking (Since its running beautifully currently).

Also, I explained to him I am currently idling at 20 degrees BTDC and need to get that down to 12- 13 degrees.....  He explained I would be better off starting from scratch on a new base tune.  Luckily I wont have to adjust the throttle blades that much.... and I should be good to go!

Just to keep everyone in the LOOP  :0)