My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!

[cobracammer]

Thank you Jared.

Barry, i think my shroud fits 2  seperate 13" fans. What kind of radiator are you running on with those fans?

[Barry_R]

Its a huge aluminum Griffen - big car helps for certain.  I think its 19" x 31" with a 1.50" core.

[cobracammer]

Thanks Barry.  Spal fans it is!

OK, in order to spend (again) just a little more $$$  I think it would make me feel better knowing that this will take care of the cooling issue.  I found these items and I think they look to fill the part:

Fans:
SPAL#063-30102044
13'' High-Performance Fan
12V
1777 cfm
Puller
Curved Blades
14-3/16'' x 13-5/8'' x 3-7/16''

Price: $155.00 Each (and these will install directly onto the aluminum shroud I currently have)

http://www.jegs.com/i/SPAL/063/30102044/10002/-1

Together these will give me 3554 CFM total ( 2 X fans each at 1777 CFM)

Radiator.....  I found out that I have a one row radiator.....  Stock unit...  nothing special from SAleen.  I found this (Price not too bad.  This is actually a 3 row!!! All aluminum radiator:  says cools up to 30% over stock unit.

SVE Aluminum Radiator
3 Row Design
100% Aluminum Construction
Direct Fit
Limited Lifetime Warranty
Fits 2005-09 4.6L 3V
29.3" x 21.5" x 5.43" Overall Dimensions
19.5" x 23.94" Core Size
1.5" Inlet Diameter
1.5" Outlet Diameter
2" Core 

Price : $234.00

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/SVE-8005E/2005-09-Mustang-Aluminum-Radiator-for-Manual-Transmission


Please let me know if you think this will do the job (At idle and at speed).  I actually forgot to mention, but I went to autoparts store today and got the Royal Purple coolant addative (which supposedly makes the coolant run 20 degrees cooler).  No luck.  It actually slowly got hot at the same rate as before I added the additive.

Dont mind at all spending the $$ on the fans and radiator above (Because I am sooooooo close to driving this car), but if its not going to do the job (even with 2" core and 3 rows instead of the stock 1 row), then I would rather not  LOL

Thanks again guys!  My appreciation for all help on here is immeasurable.

[jayb]

No wonder you are having cooling problems with a one row radiator!  I think your suggested parts will fit the bill just fine.  Spal fans are the best, by far...

[My427stang]

I like it too, the combo should work great.

As far as smoke, it should be cleaning up, but won't really build heat and clean up the mufflers until you get it on the road.  On the road you will have increased volume and EGT.

I will say though, keep watching the a/f mixtures and the oil, they are your indicators but I think you are getting close, getting some load on it and temp should clean things up and let it start adjusting itself.

[cobracammer]

Yea, I cant believe the Saleen stayed cool with that. I ran it a few times this weekend and the air fuel always ends up at about 13.5. You can see the ecu trying different combos and learning, but always evens back out. 

As far as oil pressure, the gauge ( saleen) stays right in the center   I may add an aftermarket gauge later to see the exact PSI

Keep you posted on fans and Rad.  Both are shipping out today, and I should have the radiator by Friday (so it says). Hopefully it will fit.  If you remember, I had little to no room between water pump pulley and the shroud.  This radiator (even though its a direct fit), is still 1" thicker.  I think if I run into any issue, I can take off the March billet water pump pulley cover.  Its pretty, but it really cant be seen, and is about 1" thick....  Since the fans are off center, the motors (thickest part) have plenty of room.

So now I will have a 3 row radiator with 2" core...... and 2 spall fans (13" each) that pull a total 3554 CFM's.......  Hopefully that will keep it cool while at idle, and especially while cruising.  Just as an example, yesterday was only the 1st day of summer..... and it was 101 degrees where I am.   Its going to be an awfully hot summer...... 

[cobracammer]

Hey Guys,

I was just realizing....  if this SVE radiator has a 2" core and the stock one has a 1 " core......  and if they both fit the stock radiator mounting points in the engine bay, then the radiator wont sit any closer to the front of the engine, but rather the extra inch must be at the back of the radiator (which is the part that goes toward the front bumper.

If this is the case, it should fit exactly the same (distance to the water pump pulley) as the OEM one now.... Oh please let this be the case!  But the more I look at it, the more it makes sense since there is tons of room behind the radiator...

[cobracammer]

Also, not sure if it was due to the boiling over or not (just because this whole Saleen degas tank, lower thermostat housing thing), but when the car got to like 220 degrees, I shut it down, and then it seemed like hot coolant came back up the degas tank hose that runs to the housing in the lower radiator hose....  I am not sure if this will happen once the car is running cooler, but I see that Jegs sells a 1 way check valve for fuel, oil or Coolant with 12 AN inles and outlet.  I could very easily add this to the degas tanks line that runs to the lower radiator hose.  It will allow coolant to be sucked down into the system as its needed, but when the car is shut off, it wont let the coolant rush back up the line.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/150024/10002/-1

If it happens after the radiator swap, Ill just add that.

[cobracammer]

OK I found a picture (and it wasn't easy) of that stupid Saleen thermostat housing.......



From what it looks like, obviously the think 3/4 fitting goes to the Degas tank... Which I have it doing there now.



However, the coolant opening facing you when you look at the photo (the one I put a coolant expander cap in) seems to go to the water inlet on the block.

The coolant opening on the bottom of the housing (the one facing the guys palm in the picture) appears to go to the outlet on the water crossover on the top of the block (next to the alternator)

The top coolant opening on the top of the housing (if looking at the picture)... and also the area where the top of the thermostat is housed.....  would seem to go to the lower radiator fitting.


So what I am gathering from this (and I think I asked this originally), is that this stupid (for lack of a better word) housing from the Saleen allows coolant to bypass the thermostat.  Coolant is pumped in from the water pump (coolant opening on the lower drives side of block, the water pump then circulates the coolant through the block and out of the coolant bypass (On top of the block next to alternator)....  it can keep circulating freely because its bypassing the thermostat.  Once it gets hot enough, the thermostat opens and coolant can then flow through to the lower drivers side of the radiator and (up?) to the upper radiator hose and then re-enter the engine once cooled through the other side (passenger) bypass inlet on the top of the block next to the alternator.

This to me seems to be overly complex.  However, even in this design, the degas tank is tied directly into the coolant that is circulating around through the bypass.... gaining temperature awaiting the thermostat to open.... and coolant never boiled out of the Saleen the 2 weeks I drove it stock.  Im guessing, even though I have adapted it to just be an inlet for my degas bottle inline on the lower radiator hose, it should still work.

Thoughts on this?  LOL    BTW, it seems that there are many different styles, flows and thermostat configurations for the 2005 Mustang (depending if you have a Saleen, GT, V6, Cobra, Shelby, Etc)  Confusing as all Heck (yes.... heck is what I will go with).

[foxlincoln]

.I was looking at the same radiator yesterday as it is a direct replacement and not overpriced as some of the others.But in my opinion I would throw the degas bottle and the lower T-stat housing in the trash can.I would put inline radiator filler neck in the upper hose and plug the drive side small outlet on the radiator.I would install overflow tank and plumb it to the filler neck.Use a closed style radiator cap.Check out this link  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hre-3423?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKEAjws5CrBRD8ze702_2dyjYSJAAAJK9y20vYy_5gWAdSfZbZuWpIBBixnBe0DRFAdFX2gUocHxoCFujw_wcB
Just food for though.Remember Ford has all these systems in the same year,why would it work FE?

[foxlincoln]

SOHC guys,what kind of thermostats did they use?What do you use?Temp?

[My427stang]

I think if you are running a thermostat in the upper neck. you could cut the upper hose and run something like this

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?partnumber=RB-902-305&utm_source=google&utm_medium=nonpaid&utm_campaign=frooglePN&utm_term=902-305&crossref=902-305&gclid=CIzh5dj34MUCFZORHwodLFwAtg

Then, run a cap that allows recovery (not just pressure, but has the little recovery valve in the center to pull water back in) and run the small hose to the base of the degas tank.  It would then be a standard recovery system.

The bottom hose would then be a single hose with no cut or any extra parts.

However, I also think that with some research you can make what you have work, but to be honest I am not quite sure how a degas reservoir works versus a recovery/overflow reservoir.

I'll be happy to help research it, but not until I leave Disney

[Nightmist66]

Jason, with your plans on the new rad. and fan setup I think you will be sufficient there and the current setup with hoses, etc. should be fine. The main reason for a degas tank is for the way the bodies and drivetrains are configured. With aerodynamics in mind, the radiator usually gets dropped lower in the front end to accomodate the body panels, etc. Since the radiator is mounted lower than other parts of the cooling system, the degas tank is employed to purge the air from the other parts of the system. These systems use a pressure only cap (1 way) and most times have a "puke tube" attatched to the top of the tank in case the coolant is too high, too much pressure built up, and so on. Not all have the "puke tube" though, some just release around the cap, I believe. If you want to go the other route, delete the degas tank, saleen t-stat housing, run a single hose from lower rad. outlet to driver block inlet adapter, and connect a small vent hose from the inline adapter to your new recirculating catch can, blocking off the hose port on top of rad. that used to go to degas tank. You can get the inline fill like Ross linked, add a seperate recirculating catch can and a pressure/vacuum cap such as the Ford Racing M-8100-A. This should fit the inline adapter Ross linked and is rated at 16lbs, which is better on an older car as long as the system can support the pressure because it helps increase the boiling point that much further. Almost all modern cars have 16 pound caps factory. This is same cap I have on my 66 with stock radiator. I also added a catch can and made it recirculating, although you can buy them already recirculating. I did this because if it were a catch can only, you would lose coolant when it gets hot and expands too much but don't have a way to draw it back in. This is a self-equilizing system, it takes and disperses as need be. It also doesn't matter if the recirculating catch can is higher or lower than rad., because it will draw coolant under vacuum and spit out under pressure. Mine is located on the side of my rad., about halfway up just for best fitment. I will try to get some pics tomorrow of my setup. Good luck whatever you decide.

[mike7570]

Like Ross is thinking. ?

http://s435.photobucket.com/user/mike7570/media/engine_zpsoumrklsc.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5

[cobracammer]

Thanks Guys,

I thought about it some more, and I think I will stay with the degas bottle.  If, by some chance, when I run the engine and then shut it off (Like last time) and hot coolant starts to rise in the degas bottle and overflow, I will rethink it.

It does look however that I can just get a catch can to install where the degas bottle is now (If I end up needing to go that way) and have the cap that will suck coolant back into the system (Like the one shown in the last post), and also have the degas line that comes from the direct fit radiator.

I think that would work......  but Let me first try the set up I have coming.  The more I think about it, Saleen did not have a one way valve on the degas tank in their set up, so there really is no reason that hot coolant should be overflowing out of it in the new set up (running cooler)...  I am just guessing that it does so now because of my measly 1 row radiator and its probably running way to hot?

The other question I just thought of is....  If I added a one way inline valve from the bottom of the degas tank into the lower radiator hose.....  this would still allow air to purge from the radiator, it would still allow coolant to be sucked into the system if needed, but it would stop any coolant from coming back into the degas tank....  would this be troublesome?  If coolant is supposed to rise back into it (For what reason I don't know), the one way valve would stop it and pressure would build until coolant most likely would come out of the degas line in the top of the radiator and return to the degas bottle.  Not sure it would matter, but the degas line on a direct fit radiator pulls air from the radiator (burps it).  Would it matter if coolant came through there?

Ofcourse this is all just to talk about it.  In the end, I will try the Direct fit radiator (3 row with 2" core) and dual Spal fans (+3500 CFM's) and the degas tank as is.... and see what happens.  :0)

Thanks a ton again guys.  I definitely think the inline cap with the return type top would be the next step if this doesn't work.

Ross.....  Take it easy on the "teacups" while your visiting the magic kingdom  LOL