My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!

[machoneman]

Yes, make a permanent mark of TDC. Short steel rule to hold to the balancer and mark it with a sharp edged tool, razor knife, etc. Then, re-mark with a heavier tool edge to ensure it doesn't disappear under oil, gunk, etc.

The oil is likely normal as the walls are coated, so likely are the header externals. All, headers included, should go away after a few minutes running time.

Note too it's really handy to have a fan aimed at the radiator, a gallon or two of water to fill the rad and that taped down timing light trigger to check timing at idle. One of the worst things folks do with a fresh engine is run the timing way retarded! It's amazing how those headers glow red when the timing is so far off....not good! 

[jayb]

When I did get it running (and since my timing marks were off, it read 30 degreed before TDC) there was some smoke some from the crap on the headers (oil and paint)... and some coming out of the breather tubes on each head.   That's normal right?  My thought was it was the oil that lined the cylinder walls burning off?

That is all normal for a new engine.  In fact a lot of times they will smoke a LOT for the first 5-10 minutes...

[cobracammer]

I wanted to post this little tid bit because as a first time engine builder, when something did not go exactly perfect by the book, it weighed on me.... and as I progressed through the build, its always in the back of your mind.  One item I posted that seemed off from the norm was the seating of the distributor.  I sent out the MSD Pro Billet to get one of there steel gears installed to play well with the stub cam gear.  When I finally dropped the distributor in, I noted from a book and a few how to videos, that while holding the distributor down to the intake, and with the distributor removed from the shaft, there should be a few thousands play up and down on the shaft.  It was said that if you didn't have a few thousands play up and down, you may be looking at distributor gear binding down the line.  When I did this "Test", I was a little disheartened that I had no play up and down.

What I found out while inspecting the distributor (and its assocatied clearance issues with the water neck flange , cylinder head temp sensor (stock) and the coolant sensor(for the EFI system), was that my distributor was "snugged up against one of these hang-ups by just a hair!  When I found a spot where the distributor would give me smooth movement clockwise and counter clockwise (since I am going to be re-timing it this weekend), I tried the test again and voila!  There was the few thousands movement up and down on the shaft....

Nothing big, but I wanted to clarify since I had posted in the past on this issue without any resolution at the time.  :0) 

Also, today, I get my timing tape for the 7" balancer, I also ordered the correct MSD coil wire where I wont need to use the nipple fitting to make the coil a "male", and also I ordered a nifty gas pedal from LOKAR.  Its for a 64-68 Mustang, but it looks like it would work beautifully and will make me feel a little better driving.  I think this will be better that making up some kind of bracket on the stock pedal.

I promise there will be a video at the end of all of this.........  LOL  I want it more than you all do  LOL

[machoneman]

Sure we do....but take your time and make sure all is right! 

[Bolted to Floor]

Sure we do....but take your time and make sure all is right! 

X2

[cobracammer]

OK one more day before help arrives ..... and I can find TDC.  I got my Jegs shipment yesterday, and I wanted to say what a nice piece the LOKAR mustang gas pedal is!  Not only that, but I did a quick comparison in the car, and not only will it sit at exactly the same location as the stock pedal sits now, but the area on the engine side of the firewall where it will be bolted together is clearly reachable from just around the brake booster!  Excited about that because I really am not in the mood with the timing issue to construct some make shift bracket.

The timing tape arrived as well as a brand new MSD Blaster 2 coil (this is the 3rd one I purchased, but the other 2 had to have the plastic inlet at the top altered to work with the male fitting.  This one will use the correct MSD 8.5 superconductor wire with the male "prong" protruding from the boot and will fit down into the female top of the coil (a new "unmolested" coil  LOL)

The only trick with this is that the distributor end of this new coil wire is also male ..... and since the distributor cap is male, I am going to use the box of MSD crimp on fittings to crimp on a new female fitting and new boot.

Also have had that red top battery on the "Battery Tender" staying fresh and 100% charged for when I finally get to turn it over all timed up.

In talking to jay a few months ago, he suggested which springs and which bushings should be installed on the distributor to get the correct timing curve.  The MSD pro-Billet comes with 2 heavy silver springs attached out of the box, however it was suggested that I go with the "black Bushing" as well as the "light blue" and "light silver" spings.  This was to be at about 32 degrees total timing at about 3000 RPM.  The initial timing (from what we have been discussing) is somewhere from 12-14 degrees BTDC.  (See Letter "E" in the below diagram)

So at Idle, I should see the timing light reading somewhere between 12 - 14 degrees before TDC....  This is also where I will begin when I adjust the distributor after re-marking TDC.  Also from what I am hearing, this amount of initial timing will allow the engine to fire right up.

Then....  after I give the engine time to get the oil flowing and the temperature up......  I will rev it to about 3000 RPM and have them hold it there....  at which point I should see about 32 degrees BTDC with the timing light.  I am sure these aren't exact numbers and being 1 or 2 degrees off in either direction (depending on application) would be acceptable?

[machoneman]

So at Idle, I should see the timing light reading somewhere between 12 - 14 degrees before TDC....  This is also where I will begin when I adjust the distributor after re-marking TDC.  Also from what I am hearing, this amount of initial timing will allow the engine to fire right up.

-Correct.

Then....  after I give the engine time to get the oil flowing and the temperature up......  I will rev it to about 3000 RPM and have them hold it there....  at which point I should see about 32 degrees BTDC with the timing light.  I am sure these aren't exact numbers and being 1 or 2 degrees off in either direction (depending on application) would be acceptable?

Sure, it likely won't be at exactly 32 nor hit that number exactly at 3K.

-You'll have time to play with more exact timing later. Besides, those are ballpark numbers (very good ones btw) and you may find after some driving and running time the engine happier and more responsive with some  +/- on both numbers, albeit not by much.


 

[cobracammer]

OK cool... thanks!

[cobracammer]

Ok update. Father came over and with all sparkplugs removed, was able to turn the engine clockwise with a loooong breaker bar, but not counterclockwise because it would just end up untightening the crank bolt. Used a method i saw online where you use a really long wratchet extention. ( really thin one) and when you are at the compression stroke, you insert the extension down into the cylinder and rest it on the piston. As my father slowly turned the crank clockwise, there was a point where the extension stopped moving up....  When this happened, i made note of the degrees where the pointer was.  Then slowly he kept turning the crank clockwise until the extension just barely moved ( on its way back down). At this point i made note of the degrees on the crank. When i split the value to find TDC, it ended up being where 9 degrees ATDC was on the balancer timing marks. Before I reset the timing marks with the timing tape, we did it one more time to make sure. So he turned the crank clockwise until TDC came around again ( which was the exhaust stroke) and the as it came around again( blowing air out) we were at the compression stroke again. Using the long rachet extension again, we came up with the same numbers. At this point we were positive that 9 degrees ATDC on the balancer was actually TDC.  I used the timing tape  and stuck it on covering the actual balancer numbers with the tape. Now, TDC is correctly marked. On to the distributor. We turned the Crank until it read 13 degrees before our new TDC. Pulling the distributor cap, we saw that the distributor was pointing roughly at # 2 cylinder. So starting on the cap in the location the point was already facing, we made that point the #1 plug wire.  Working our way counterclockwise now, we connected : 1,5,4,2,6,3,7,8. We tightened down the distributor with the hold down, but gave our selves a little wiggle room to clock it if we needed. I stood holding the distributor top, and my father turned the engine over.... Again it took a few seconds, but the engine would start up , putter and die. It wouldnt stay running long enough to put the timing light on it. So I marked the cap and the intake where it sat, and then while he cranked, turned it a little clockwise (advance). It would not start and sounded weight down, then i moved it back to our 13 degrees btdc mark and when he tried turning it over again, i turned it a little clockwise... No luck. So i turned it back to our 13 degrees BTDC markings, and a few more times it popped to life, then sputtered and died. Couldnt get it running at all. We tried for another hour or so, giving it a little throttle and such, but always the same

After an hour, we actually overheated the starter???  I may now need a new started because now all the solenoid does is click

Honestly guys, no idea. I think i am going to contact the shop and ask them to pick it up.... And call me when its running.

i am curious if its normally so hard to turn over the engine with a breaker bar???  It moved, and seemed to move easier after a few turns, but counterclockwise was not going to happen. Bolt came loose each time we tried( and that bolt was torqued on there to spec!!! 

Ideas?  Shop guys is calling to discuss his charge to get it running tomorrow

[machoneman]

W/o trying to sound like a smartie, one needs spark, compression and fuel. Think we can dispense with compression. Are the plugs wet with fuel? Sounds like it if it kicks. Does the #1 plug and others (grounded) spark? Seemingly so if it kicks over but sputters to a stop after you release the key. 

I wonder if the spark is going away as you release the key and after it briefly fires...meaning something is wrong with the ignition wiring, coil hookups, etc.   (Key to Start position, engine fires....releasing the key to the Run position and the engine quits). 

[cjshaker]

Are you sure it's not a fuel issue? Have you tried dribbling a SMALL amount of gas into the intake when it fires to see if it continues to run, or spraying a SMALL amount of ether in it to see if it continues? If it seems to want to continue running that way, it's a fuel related issue. But DON'T try to keep the engine running that way, just see if it wants to.

You can hardly ever turn an engine backwards with the crank bolt. It'll always loosen, especially on a fresh engine where everything is tight. I'm not so sure it's a good idea anyway on a Cammer, with the super long chain and tensioners.

I can't remember what damper you got. If it's an ATI, they're known for being 7* off. A better TDC method would have been to use something that goes into the spark plug hole to act as a piston stop. Still, if you do it carefully, your way should at least have gotten you close enough for it to run.

[cobracammer]

Hi Doug. Tried the piston stop, but it wont work of you cant rotate it counterclockwide :-(. Actually tried that first

Damn thing wants to run, i am thinking maybe something in the way i have the switched on power wire hooked up?  I have the fuel pumps, the MSD ign box, and the FAST efi computer all sharing one "add a fuse" location on the fuse box in the passenger side kick panel fuse box

At this point though im pretty sure i killed the starter for excessive cranking.  Pretty sure its gone.

Just also finished re-reading all instructions for msd, fast, and fuel pumps. The EFI states that fuel pressure should be 43 PSI but it says thats for 4 injectors!  I have the dual quad set up, which is 8 injectors!!!!  It says 60 psi is about as high as you can go with these injectors, but doesnt mention anything about the dual quad set up...... This alone may be why it gets going and then dies off?  Going to call FAST tech line monday and find out

[jayb]

As long as you have 43 psi in the fuel lines, it won't matter how many injectors there are, provided the lines will flow enough volume to support them.

Take 5 minutes to pull the inspection cover off the front cover and look at the chain, to make sure it is still reasonably tight.  I had a chain break once on a backfire on startup.  Probably not your issue, but it won't hurt to check.

[cobracammer]

Hi Jay,  i can check, but i can see the pistons moving up and down the cylinder as we turned the crank. Its weird, because it ran strong for like 2 minutes the first go around.

Im using 3/8 fuel line.  I wonder if that will support 43 psi and 8 injectors?

Anyway, I toasted the MAD starter

[cobracammer]

OK, just got off the phone with Fuel Air Spark Tech people (FAST).  We came up with a few "biggies".

First, the fuel pressure regulator should be at roughly 50 PSI. not the 43PSI in the directions.

second, the vacuum reference line that comes off of the regulator should be hooked to a different vacuum port than the one on the throttle body I have it hooked to!  He said this is a biggie that is not in the instructions.  I had it hooked to a vacuum reference port on the side of the throttle body, but it needs to be hooked to one specific reference port on the front corner of the throttle body.  He said this is not in the instructions, but even though the ports look identical, the front corner one is designed specifically for the regulator.  I told him about the time I had the engine running for about 2 minutes, and when I hit the throttle a little it died.  He said that having the reference vacuum line on that wrong port would have caused it to run too rich and die out.

Also, and he said that this is the biggest issue....

I have the 12 V switched power source line for the FAST computer and the MSD ignition box, and the fuel pumps all tied into one fuse location (Passenger side kick panel fuse box)....  He said again.... not specific in the instructions, but the 12 V switched power needs to have its own location....  he said especially running it spliced in together with the MSD box is definitely a huge issue.

So....  I went out to the garage and changed over the vacuum port hose location to the correct one.

I will have to up the fuel pressure to 50 PSI. (I also told him I was running 3/8 inch fuel line with 6AN fittings and he said that's good-No issue there)

and a tedious one for me is now having to find a 12 V switched power source to run the FAST computer from, I will try and fine a separate one to run the MSD Ignition box from, and Ill leave the other where it is now.