Author Topic: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!  (Read 862462 times)

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cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #270 on: September 24, 2014, 02:55:38 PM »
Will do.  Its a brand spanking new $120.00 Craftsman.... I only purchased it for this build.  I guess I could check it against a neighbors and see if its the same.  Luckily Craftsman has a lifetime guarantee.

The other 8 intake bolts torqued down to 20 ft lbs no problem..... and the bolt that snapped off on the front of the engine... I wasn't using the torque wrench on that one.

the small nuts on the cam caps got 20 ft lbs as well with no issues.....Not really sure.  What I am sure of is that all 10 are now Steel Helicoils instead of just aluminum threads... so 20 Ft Lbs should be nothing.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 04:47:42 PM by cobracammer »
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

Joe-JDC

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #271 on: September 24, 2014, 08:20:13 PM »
Also, if you are using a fine thread nut with Arp lube, then the torque value will be less than 20 lbft dry.  Have you re-torqued your head studs/bolts?  If the torque on that right head relaxes, then that head did not get properly heat treated.  If you check the bolts, and they begin to squeeze the aluminum into the hole below the head of the nut/bolt, the it is not hardened properly.  Just a cautionary suggestion, but I would recheck your head torque.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

jayb

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #272 on: September 24, 2014, 09:12:07 PM »
I think it would be a good idea to take Joe's advice.  You have had a lot of trouble with threads stripping on this project, and that tends to point to at least one of the heads not being heat treated properly.  Re-check your head bolt or stud torque and see if there are any major changes.  You shouldn't get any significant turn on the fasteners if you torque them to the same value as before, regardless of whether the torque wrench is in calibration or not.  And I'm skeptical that the torque wrench is so far out of calibration that you are stripping the threads.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

My427stang

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #273 on: September 25, 2014, 06:49:14 AM »
Its entirely possible that a torque wrench could be that far off, especially at the bottom of the scale, although he said he stripped one before he torqued it.  I have mine calibrated pretty regularly, and actually have had a couple come back listed as unusable.  These are Snap-on too, it happens and its usually off on one end of the scale or the other

The studs should fix a thread engagement issue, but I'd still look at that with the bolts that came out for an answer.  Too long or too short, both take the threads out, heck a bolt hole full of oil could too.  Mechanical pressure from a bolt that is too long or hydraulic pressure from a full bolt hole has to go somewhere, and if too short, they'll certainly pull threads out in a hurry

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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #274 on: September 25, 2014, 07:34:20 AM »
Of note, I did remove both heads when I bent the valves (and to machine the intake valve relief in the cylinder.  And I have to say that those head bolts were definitely on there tight!  Not one of them was loose from the first torque down.  But I will check.

And the studs I will be putting in (rather than using the grade 8 bolts are fine thread all the way up.  3/8-16.  Do you think it would be prudent to just tighten then like 1 quarter past tight with a regular wrench rather than to torque them?  Torque wrench only goes as low as 20 ft lbs (if the calibration is correct)?
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

jayb

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #275 on: September 25, 2014, 07:55:25 AM »
Maybe you can check your torque wrench the easy way, like I did...

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=352.msg2659#msg2659
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #276 on: September 25, 2014, 10:05:49 AM »
Thanks Jay.  That's really a neat way to check all the way up.  Mine is a clicker too (in 1 ft-lb increments).
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #277 on: September 29, 2014, 09:13:10 AM »
OK had some family activities this weekend, but I was able to get some garage time in on Sunday evening.  I purchased a few lengths of studs from Bolt depot to make sure I had what I needed for the intake manifold.  I am thinking that the 427 SOHC manual from form gives one length for intake manifold bolts, but with the more modern re-pops... they will prob. not work as well.  I ended up going with a 2" stud.  This is quite a bit off what the manual says it the correct stud, but this let me bottom out the stud into the Heli-coil and then I used a flanged 12 point ARP nut.  Now I would like to tell you that I torqued them all down, but I didn't.  I used a regular ratchet and tightened them until they were tight, and then did a quarter turn.  Honestly I didn't want to wreck my weekend as I have not had a chance to check the torque Wrench for accuracy.

Once I had that buttoned up, I went on to the oil pan.  I had the first gasket sealed onto the block and the rest bolted on dry just to check clearances.  That was last week.  This week I purchased some modeling clay from the store, and set to work checking and sealing up the pan.  The pan I am using is an 8qt rear sump.  This was due to the fact that it has to clear the tubular K member in the Saleen.  So given this factoid, the 8 quarts is held almost entirely where the pick up is located.  No chance at all of the oil pump ever being starved for oil.  To get the pick up tube to fit correctly, there is a small brace that is supposed to bolt under the center main cap stud.  Oddly it was too small to fit over the stud, so I drilled out the hole a little larger on the drill press.... cleaned the pick up off, and then mounted it loosely under the stud.  Once I had the 2 bolts that hold the pick up onto the oil pump itself, then I re-torqued the main cap stud back to 115 ft lbs.  placing the ball of modeling clay on a sheet of plastic wrap (so it wouldn't get smooshed down into the grate of the oil pick up, and slightly oiling it so it wont stick, I lowered the pan down on top just to see what kind of clearance I had....  pan didn't even touch the ball.  Now this would worry me on a regular pan, but like I said this is an odd shaped pan with 8 quarts of oil above the pick up tube.... even if I had 3 inches of clearance between the bottom of the pick up and the pan, I would prob still have 6 inches of oil above the pickup.  There is a picture on page 2 or 3 of this forum page of the pan to get a visualization.

Anyway, once everything was tightened down, the sandwich of gaskets, windage tray, more gaskets and pan ... all held together with sealer were self locking flange nuts were used with studs (from Moroso and came with the Pan.)

I was also able to swap out the springs in the Distributor to one light grey spring and one light blue spring (in lieu of the 2 heavy grey springs it comes with out of the box.)  I also swapped out the bushing to the Black bushing.  The only thing I need to do now is swap out the cast Iron gear for the steel gear I purchased.  It says I need to press it off and press the new one on, but I cannot seem to get it under my shop press in such a way that is secure.  Does anyone have a tip on an easier way to press on and off the gears on the distributor?

Im all ears!
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #278 on: September 29, 2014, 02:23:08 PM »
Just got off the phone with MSD.  For $35.00, they will press off the old cast Iron gear and press on the new Billet Steel gear to the exact spacing.  If I tried this at home, I would just end up breaking something.  Turn around time is 15 business days, so I guess I am stalled for right now.  Better to leave it to the professionals.  I think now would be an excellent time to work on the Motor mount clearance issues.  If you remember a few pages back, the AJE tubular K member came with a set of FE motor Mounts.  This was awesome, however, they forgot to mention that they fit every FE engine EXCEPT the side oiler due to the oiling passage on the (Drivers?) side of the block.  Due to that oil galley, the 2 sides bolt patterns are not identical.  I am going to mark off where where the bolt hole should be, machine it out on the mill, and fill in the old bolt slot (to make sure it keeps its integrity).  I think I will also Mount the K member while the engine is on the stand to make double sure I have no clearance issues.  I haven't figured out how to run the power steering pump, so It may just stay a manual steer car!  lol
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #279 on: September 29, 2014, 08:09:16 PM »
Took some pictures tonight when I got home




Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #280 on: October 01, 2014, 02:33:58 PM »
OK small updates.  I went to Jegs and purchased 2 oil filters.  I purchased a K & N filter just for the break in Oil/ Period.  Then I purchased a Moroso Race filter after the break in is complete.

I was able to seal up the water pump gaskets to the pump and then seal the pump to the block. Before I installed, I installed plugs into the 2 areas where I believe fittings go for the heater core.  Being in South Florida, no need for heat so plugged with thread sealant.  Then on to attaching the water pump. Just to be safe, I put thread sealer on both the top and bottom bolt threads on the passenger side bolts.  I believe one or both of them goes into the water jacket, but just to be safe I put sealer on both.  The drivers side bolts did not get any sealer.  All 4 bolts were torqued to 25 ft lbs.

I pulled out the large water neck from its storage box.  Wasn't too pretty at all since it looks to be just raw steel pre welded.  I cleaned it off with brake cleaner to remove any debris or oil residue, and wiped it down.  Then I sprayed it with a VHT grey paint (good up to 550 degrees).  I let it dry over night and plan to seal it up with a gasket (and some TA-31) tonight using some extra stainless steel studs and self locking flange nuts I had from the oil pan install. (mistakenly had two packs of the oil pan studs, so had an extra pack after the install).  Should work and look great.

What I am curious about is this:  There are plently of tutorials out there on how to replace a distributor on a car that had a distributor already, but how to you install a brand new distributor on a brand new motor.  My guess would be to start by getting the engine to TDC on the compression stroke for cylinder 1 and installing the distributor so that the rotor is touching the #1 wire.  This would make the spark ignite at TDC and then you can time it to fire some degree before TDC when it gets running...... but that's just my guess.  Does anyone have any tips?  Distributor wont be back from MSD for a few weeks, but I would like to start planning my "Attack"

« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 02:37:36 PM by cobracammer »
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

ScotiaFE

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #281 on: October 01, 2014, 05:23:39 PM »
Yup bring to TDC on the compression at  #1 and drop in the dizzy and point the pointer at #1. You can put the timing light on it and get it very close.

Why the 2 different filters?
There is A LOT of debate about which filter, but I really see no need to use one filter for break in and a different one for actual running.
I use the Mobil One filter.

Always kool watching your cammer build.



Joe-JDC

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #282 on: October 01, 2014, 08:28:37 PM »
Actually I would suggest you bring the #1 piston up to TDC on compression stroke, and then rotate it to 12-14* BTDC and install the distributor with the leading edge of the rotor just coming into contact position with #1 spark plug terminal.  That way the engine is much closer to being timed properly and ready for break-in, and will not run hot with a retarded timing.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

WConley

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #283 on: October 02, 2014, 01:18:31 AM »
Good advice on the distributor stab, Joe.

Oh- If we see an orange Fram filter on that engine, we'll be organizing a pitchfork mob!  Your choices look fine to me  :)
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #284 on: October 02, 2014, 08:34:49 AM »
I saw that the Orange Phram replacement filter is a direct replacement for the Ford filter listed in the Cammer manual.  Definitely not going that route.  I purchased 2 filters just beause after the break in (using the Joe Gibbs break in oil), I am sure there will be some kind of debris filtered out....  it micro metal flakes from the cams braking in, the stub cam breaking in, etc.  I figured it would be smart to put on a fresh filter when I change the oil after break in.  For the extra few dollars (Moroso racing filter was only about 22.00), I will have more peace of mind.

Also I went into the garage last night to install the freshly painted water neck with the stainless steel hardware and remembered that a thermostat needs to go in there first!  LOL  Funny after all of these years, I am still buying the small stuff as I find need.  So last night I again went on Jegs and got a Milodon thermostat (180*) for pre-1967 390-428....  Should be the right one and 180 sounds about right as well.  Oddly, there is no mention of the thermostat in the 427 SOHC manual from ford.

Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears