Shelby stocker

[mike7570]

 I get a bit jealous reading about everyone's projects while mine sits idle. I just can't seem to find the time to get much done.
 Well my 10yr project made a little progress, I got the new 9" rear in the car. I had everything measured for a tight tire fit (I got good suggestions from Afret) but as fate would have it the axle housing came back 1" narrower than planned when the housing ends were changed. I think everything will work out with a 3/8" spacer. I haven't run spacers on a drag car before, anyone with a comment on running them or not?

[afret]

Looking good!  Glad you're making progress.   

You might consider sticking to billet wheel spacers instead of those cast aluminum ones.  Also it's probably a good idea to go to the bigger 5/8" studs.  I even use them on my street car. 



Hope your project keeps moving along.

[mike7570]

The cast spacer is 1/4" for test fit, still a little tight. I went with the offset on the rims like yours but I didn't plan on the axle width changing.
I plan on using the billet spacers when I get the fit right.  I bought the rims used and they only fit the 1/2" studs (they can be ordered for 5/8" but I would have to purchase new ones)
Crap, I hate it when it's not right the first time. Maybe I'll give them a try, I didn't have any problems with them on my '67 coupe. Have you broken them before? Do the spacers create more stress on the wheel studs?

[jayb]

The spacers can create more stress on the wheel studs, so that is really the issue.  Having said that I've run them before on a 9 second car and managed to get away with it.  I had stock size wheel studs but they were good ones from Mark Williams.  I don't think you'll have any problems, but I would pay attention to them, especially the first few times out at the track - Jay

[afret]

Hey Mike, don't those Centerline wheels use regular mag style lug nuts and not those acorn type?   If they use the mag type lug nuts, you can use the 5/8" studs.  Those studs have 11/16" shoulders that are the same as the outside diameter of the mag lug nuts.  The 5/8" studs just use a flange type nut and the stud shoulder fits closely to the holes in the wheels.   The studs come in a bunch of different shoulder lengths depending on the thickness of your wheels and spacers if used.

Here's Don's car using spacers.  His tires have done a good job polishing his leaf springs.  LOL

[TomP]

This is my theory on tire fit too. If they aren't rubbing somewhere you have room for bigger tires.

[mike7570]

Progress, well sort of, well not really.
Moved to a new house with a larger garage. Now I can see the car!
More room to work on it and no pesky CCR's saying you can't work on a car in your driveway.

[57 lima bean]

Spacers can be as helpful as a girdle when machined to close tolerances.Mine were made for that reason while still using 1/2 inch studs.The car looks awesome Mike..!!!

[cobracammer]

I second that!  It looks AWESOME!

[mike7570]

Well this project is going slowly (the last post was 6 pages back) I've got a big grin (It's like early Christmas) finally got a new iron 428 block to base the engine on and I finished bending up the new rear brake lines. Who knows maybe it will be running within a year!

[machoneman]

Spacers will work fine. Just be sure to be torque them down more than a few times when installed and then after driving it around a bit. Then, before your first strip run and perhaps a check after a few more runs. I've run them but they do then to loosen until things settle in. BTDT! 

[gt350hr]

   Think about using a shank lug nut that is longer so it protrudes past the wheel but not past the wheel AND spacer. If the holes in the spacer are too small , they could be enlarged to actually locate on the extra long lugs. This would get you back some strength. 5/8ths studs should be used ( IMHO) on a stick car or a heavy car  that runs in the 9's.

[Rory428]

Mike, not sure what wheels you are using, but on my Fairmont, I have been using the 5/8" Strange wheel studs since I switched to the Jerico 4 speed, 17 years ago. I have Centerline Autodrags, and the bigger studs fit my Centerlines with no modification required to the wheels. The studs have a thin sleeve that threads onto the stud, that fills up the space in the lug holes of the wheels, and the lug nuts are flat, flanged units, with flat aluminum spacers that go between the face of the wheel and the lug nut flange. No more of that hassle with shank style lug nuts galling up inside the holes of the wheel.

[mike7570]

Rory, I'm using Centerlines but the "qualifier" wheel looks like it won't accept a nut that large.
My super-gas car used 1" nuts on the studs what size nut are on the 5/8" studs?

[mike7570]

Looks like I make a little progress about once a year LOL
Well my wallet knows different, I'm still collecting parts and some day I'll turn the corner on dismantling and prep and I'll focus on assembly
My goal is to have it finished before I retire - I better get busy.

Got the car back from the welder the other day. Installed new upper & lower cowl and welded up all the holes in the fenders and body to make it a '67.

[mbrunson427]

Here's some motivation for you! Are you intending on doing the stock class thing with it? If so, give the Horensky's a call, super nice folks and totally willing to give you tips/tricks on dialing the car in. Also, obviously, Blair is a great resource too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e8gz_ePcLE

[cjshaker]

Here's some motivation for you! Are you intending on doing the stock class thing with it? If so, give the Horensky's a call, super nice folks and totally willing to give you tips/tricks on dialing the car in. Also, obviously, Blair is a great resource too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e8gz_ePcLE

Mike has been racing for quite a while. He had a full tube '69 Mustang, but not sure if he's still got it or not. He's got quite a bit of experience and I'm sure he will have no problem getting the car dialed in.

Nice to see the car coming along, Mike. Looking pretty good!

[mike7570]

I reached a Milestone over the weekend!  I finally finished cleaning off 52yrs of rust, dirt and grime from the mustang project.
I took every nut and bolt apart on this car but I made a big mistake in not getting it media blasted. (I think I was afraid of what would be left of the sheet metal.)
I broke countless rusted bolts off taking it apart, wore out numerous wire wheels and went through a bunch of cans of undercoating and spray paint.
Now when I'm underneath the car I will no longer come out looking like I just rolled in a pile of dirt. I'm starting front end assembly next with welding in the Trans Am style wheel side shock tower brace.  I'm also thinking of doing the Shelby drop for the upper A arm but I don't like where the holes are ending up.
Can anyone that has done the drop chime in?
 

[gdaddy01]

I did the drop many years ago , changed it back after a few years , did not like it that much , after reading about how it put the tie rods in a bind , if not using wedges under the ball joints , I did not think it was something I needed on a street car .  made my front tires rub more with 15x7's 225 x60's

[jayb]

I've done it on my 68 Shelby (which didn't originally have that), and also my 68 Mustang fastback.  I've had no issues, and in fact I think the tire clearance is a little better in corners as the camber is more negative.  I have 225 60/R-15s on 7" Cragar SS mags on the front of my 68 fastback, and no tire rubbing issues.

[mike7570]

I wasn't too interested in cornering since it's a drag car but I was reading this excerpt and thought it would be a benefit in 1/4 mile racing?
"Another added benefit of the drop is the flattening of the arc for the camber curve changing the camber less throughout the suspension travel keeping it closer to the specification it was aligned to."
You can see the camber change in the picture of Jay's 69 Mustang above. The Shelby front tire looks straighter (non shock tower car)
For a stocker I can't use travel limiters, besides I need the weight transfer to plant a 9" tire.
 

[gt350hr]

   My '66 Shelby has the "standard" A arm location as SAI stopped  doing it after cars in the 300s. Mine is #477. I have never had a radical camber change situation. If you can't add a "limiter" , you can certainly run a "short shock" LOL.

[mike7570]

I watched the video mbrunson427 posted a few more times. I don't see the camber changing much during the wheels up launch.
I also don't see it on the 2 cars in the photo.
I am worried about banging up low hanging headers more by lowering the car.

[mbrunson427]

Mike, PM me.

[CaptCobrajet]

Both of those cars pictured have had the control arms fixed.....

[mike7570]

Both of those cars pictured have had the control arms fixed.....

With eccentric eliminator kit?  I have new rollerized control arms and bump steer kit but I haven’t put it together yet. I’ll probably get it  close then take it to a good alignment shop.

[cjshaker]

Both of those cars pictured have had the control arms fixed.....

Not sure what that means either?

My '69 certainly doesn't look like that (wheels straight up) when I jack the front end up. The wheels look like Jay's '69 in his photo. I bought rollerized lower control arms and spring perches, so I'm pretty interested in this subject also. I didn't buy the bump steer kit though, because I hadn't heard of anybody saying it was needed for drag racing, only road racing.

As for lowering the car further and smashing headers, and since you can't use limiters, couldn't you just as easily use bump stops to limit compression? That's what I was planning on doing. I was also looking at using a road race type pan with extensive baffeling for oil control, to keep the pan a few inches higher than the deep pans, and using a set of headers that didn't hang down like the old Hooker race headers did. Earl was using a set that didn't hang down so low, but my failing memory can't remember the name of them. At least not without going back to the thread where we talked about it  JBL, maybe?

[mike7570]

Both of those cars pictured have had the control arms fixed.....

Not sure what that means either?

My '69 certainly doesn't look like that (wheels straight up) when I jack the front end up. The wheels look like Jay's '69 in his photo. I bought rollerized lower control arms and spring perches, so I'm pretty interested in this subject also. I didn't buy the bump steer kit though, because I hadn't heard of anybody saying it was needed for drag racing, only road racing.

As for lowering the car further and smashing headers, and since you can't use limiters, couldn't you just as easily use bump stops to limit compression? That's what I was planning on doing. I was also looking at using a road race type pan with extensive baffeling for oil control, to keep the pan a few inches higher than the deep pans, and using a set of headers that didn't hang down like the old Hooker race headers did. Earl was using a set that didn't hang down so low, but my failing memory can't remember the name of them. At least not without going back to the thread where we talked about it  JBL, maybe?

I was hoping to keep the car from wandering around a little on the top end, may not be necessary but I needed new parts anyway. There are ways to make bump stops but I don't want to limit the movement too much since I can only use 9" wide tires. The two cars above are using quite different headers. I had a set like the white car on my '67 coupe that ran in super street. I banged them up pretty good. I picked up another set at a good price for my car and I'm trying to suppress the urge to get custom built step headers 

[mike7570]

Here is the shock tower bolt locations for the upper arms. I'm worried if I drop the hole 1" (Shelby drop) it will end up off or right on the edge of the 2 layers of metal in that part of the shock tower. I guess I could weld in some additional support in that area but is it really needed? 

[jayb]

The new holes will come right up to the edge of that double metal area, but they won't go over it.  At least mine don't...

[thatdarncat]

I’m planning on doing the Shelby upper A-Arm drop on the ‘67 Cougar I’m working on also, mostly for the same reason Mike mentioned, to keep the tires straighter on launch & under power. I intend my car to mostly be drag raced with some street driving for Drag Week. I’m trying to keep everything rules compliant to possibly run in Stock Eliminator in the future too with an engine change. I have the rollerized front suspension parts already. There are different published drawings for doing the drop on the ‘65-‘66 Mustangs and the ‘67-‘70 Mustangs. I purchased the metal template Open Tracker sells for the ‘67-‘70 cars, but mocking it up I was concerned on where it looked like it was going to put the a-arm also. Part of my concern was on what it looked like it was going to do to the caster setting. For drag racing usually you try to put more caster into it. It might be a case of what’s optimum for road racing is different. Anyway, my conclusion was although it would be easier to do the drilling now with my car all stripped down too, I decided it would be prudent to wait until I got it all assembled and at race weight/ride height and make a preliminary check of the front end alignment and see where it’s at stock,  and then make a decision on what is the best location for the dropped holes. There’s not a lot of room for error there, and although doing it that way will be a lot of extra work, I figure it’s better not to have holes in the wrong place to deal with too. Just my observation & plan, I think some of my concerns were the same as Mikes. 

Here’s the template for the two different ways to do the a-arm drop. Which one were you intending to do Mike?

[mike7570]

The new holes will come right up to the edge of that double metal area, but they won't go over it.  At least mine don't...

I have a template but didn't set it in there yet. The 1" may be deceiving now that I think about it. It must be center to center if it stays on the 2 layer area.
I think I'll mark it tonight and see.  Thatdarncat beat me too it, center to center makes more sense. (67-70)

[thatdarncat]

I’ll add too, since there are two different common templates to do the drop, It’s probably also a good idea to ask people which one they used.

[afret]

The template with the holes 1/8" back are for the '65-'66 Mustangs and the other one is for '67 and up.

[Nightmist66]

I did the Shelby drop on mine this time while I had it all apart. I didn't  but any fancy drill template. I simply used a 3/4" wide piece of flat stock aluminum and trimmed it to the exact bolt center to center. I held the piece directly under the center of each existing hole, right up to the edge and made a sharpie mark under the bottom corners of the flat stock. Double checked that the center to center of my new marks matched the existing and then drilled. Since I held the flat stock to the edge of the existing hole and used 3/4" material, it gave me the total of 1". After I got the holes drilled, there were two I believe that did slightly break through the edge of the double stamped metal. I just decided to roll with it. I don't think it will hurt much. I also bought the roller upper control arm conversion kit, roller perches, tubular lower arms.

When I jacked up the lower control arm, I had a magnetic angle finder attached to the rotor and watched throughout the travel. I was very pleased to see the arc stayed within 1/2° the whole time. I am also using the camber lockout kit with interchangeable blocks. I have not had the car back on the ground yet to see how it will all settle.

Also, I am using some 1/4"  steel plate to replace the upper shock mount. This will help with rise, but also limit the compression, because the shock cannot go back up as high. I also made my own adjustable strut rods with heim joints.

[Heo]

I did several shelbydrops. What i do if the engine is out of the car
is i weld the edge where the new hole will be and ground flat before
i drill.  i also weld around the reinforcements 1 inch welds 2 inches apart
and make reinforcementplates that go around the corner of the springtower
like on boss and cobrajet cars. And i weld in an reinforcement plate on the
outside, from under the a arm boltholes down to the framerail at a approximately
45 degrees. The caster you adjust with shimming the upper A arm between the
shaft and springtower

[mike7570]

I make a little progress and I get all giddy about it.  Well it's not often I find time to do some work on the car. Retirement in about 5-6 months! 
The new crank showed up (391 crank still for sale) and I have the block in for machining now and should have a short block ready in a few weeks.
 

[mike7570]

From previous discussion, hole location for Shelby drop. Suspension compression and extension (no spring)
Engine compartment and disc brakes, getting closer. 

[gt350hr]

  The drop does nothing to help a drag car. My first GT350 was a carryover '66 ( 65 chassis) which had factory lowered A arms and my current one ( of 46 years) is a '66 chassis and is not lowered. I saw no difference in "performance" or driveability at the drag strip.
  Randy

[mbrunson427]

Randy, the gain is what was illustrated in the pictures. The camber stays true through the whole up/down movement of the suspension. May not be worth big ET, but when you're racing in a class that hundredths matter a lot.....

[e philpott]

Mounted 1/8th rearward would give a little more positive Castor , that's a good thing on a drag car

[gt350hr]

   I understand , it's just that I never saw any difference. My '66 with standard a arm location has very little camber change , even "topped out" with the wheels off the ground. I did see a change when I changed the strut rods to aftermarket ones with heim jointed ends. I've owned 4 GT350s with factory lowered A arms and three without. Certainly an improvement on cornering .  I have over four thousand passes on this car . I had about 1,200 on the 4 speed car with lowered A arms. Yes I've been drag racing Shelbys a long time.

[Keith Stevens]

Mounted 1/8th rearward would give a little more positive Castor , that's a good thing on a drag car

There isn't really room for reward movement.  I have this done on my 67.

[mike7570]

  The drop does nothing to help a drag car. My first GT350 was a carryover '66 ( 65 chassis) which had factory lowered A arms and my current one ( of 46 years) is a '66 chassis and is not lowered. I saw no difference in "performance" or driveability at the drag strip.
  Randy

I raced my '67 coupe in super street with a stock front suspension and 90/10 shocks, the front end would ride a little high until the finish line, where once on the brakes the camber change would affect the handling some and keep your attention. In contrast my super gas car with very little travel was rock steady through the entire run.
The Shelby drop was easy to do and should help the finish line handling when dumping an opponent

[HR427]

Cool project.  I am putting together a 64 high riser stocker engine as well.  Which crank did you go with?  I ordered a scat with .013+ on the stroke. 

[gt350hr]

  The drop does nothing to help a drag car. My first GT350 was a carryover '66 ( 65 chassis) which had factory lowered A arms and my current one ( of 46 years) is a '66 chassis and is not lowered. I saw no difference in "performance" or driveability at the drag strip.
  Randy

I raced my '67 coupe in super street with a stock front suspension and 90/10 shocks, the front end would ride a little high until the finish line, where once on the brakes the camber change would affect the handling some and keep your attention. In contrast my super gas car with very little travel was rock steady through the entire run.
The Shelby drop was easy to do and should help the finish line handling when dumping an opponent

    My '66 runs super street times now. Would like to go 9.999999999 "once" next year. My new engine ''might" do it.

[mike7570]

  The drop does nothing to help a drag car. My first GT350 was a carryover '66 ( 65 chassis) which had factory lowered A arms and my current one ( of 46 years) is a '66 chassis and is not lowered. I saw no difference in "performance" or driveability at the drag strip.
  Randy

I raced my '67 coupe in super street with a stock front suspension and 90/10 shocks, the front end would ride a little high until the finish line, where once on the brakes the camber change would affect the handling some and keep your attention. In contrast my super gas car with very little travel was rock steady through the entire run.
The Shelby drop was easy to do and should help the finish line handling when dumping an opponent

    My '66 runs super street times now. Would like to go 9.999999999 "once" next year. My new engine ''might" do it.

Bring it out to Bakersfield in the spring for the ANRA race, should be decent air,  I'll be there with a friend of mines '65. (runs in the 10.70 with 351 stroker)

[gt350hr]

   My best at Bfield is 11.03 with my 331. My wheels stay ALLOT closer to the ground than your friends. His 351 obviously has a ton more torque and HP than I do at the moment. New motor will not be done by the spring. I will barely make the closed event at the end of July at Sears. Since I don't ( and will never have) a full cage , 10.50 will be the limit. Putting a full cage in a real 66 GT350 hurts the value too much. My ego doesn't care what the dial in is. The 9.99 ET thing is just about a stock body , no subframe connectors , no mini tubs , no additional/different traction bars , etc. thing. Near total stealth except for the 10" Goodyears. Just "my"  preference.
   Randy

[mike7570]

Cool project.  I am putting together a 64 high riser stocker engine as well.  Which crank did you go with?  I ordered a scat with .013+ on the stroke.

Same, but I get a little more stroke than you with my 428. What bore size did you go with?

[Stangman]

We’re is backersfield

[HR427]

Cool project.  I am putting together a 64 high riser stocker engine as well.  Which crank did you go with?  I ordered a scat with .013+ on the stroke.

Same, but I get a little more stroke than you with my 428. What bore size did you go with?

4.280 with the block filled to the wp holes

[mike7570]

We’re is backersfield

about here

[Cobrajet2]

A little more incentive for your project. Maybe you have seen this one, although it is rather recent.  Kind of neat, the unique combinations  the Shelbys have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ULVX6Z99AA

Mike

[mike7570]

Saw that, nice car and it's a real Shelby.
I like this motivational picture

[mike7570]

Car is finally ready for paint but I can't find anyone at a reasonable price. Maybe because I'm older I still think it can be painted for less than 10K.
Most shops I went to only want collision repair insurance work and the ones that do full car paint all acted like they produce show cars. I feel a car I'm going to race should be daily driver quality,
a show paint job is for trailer queens. Wish I had the time or knowledge to try it, Jay's sure looks nice. This is about as far as I can get it with the ill fitting fiberglass reproductions.

[mbrunson427]

Sweet!!  Where are you at? California or Arizona right? What colors are you thinking?

[475fetoploader]

If you can’t finish it before you retire, just keep working.  That way you’ll make your goal no matter what. 

[mike7570]

Sweet!!  Where are you at? California or Arizona right? What colors are you thinking?

Still in California, looking at Arizona but I think I’m going to be here a while longer.
On my computer at work I have pictures of a red, 2 blue, white and 2 green Shelbys. I’m leaning toward blue with white stripes.

[mike7570]

If you can’t finish it before you retire, just keep working.  That way you’ll make your goal no matter what. 

This is why I need to find paint, retirement date is the end of this year.😬 Engine is waiting in garage just need some lifters and head gaskets that are on back order.

[Gregwill16]

Looking good!

[Tommy-T]

Car is finally ready for paint but I can't find anyone at a reasonable price. Maybe because I'm older I still think it can be painted for less than 10K.
Most shops I went to only want collision repair insurance work and the ones that do full car paint all acted like they produce show cars. I feel a car I'm going to race should be daily driver quality,
a show paint job is for trailer queens. Wish I had the time or knowledge to try it, Jay's sure looks nice. This is about as far as I can get it with the ill fitting fiberglass reproductions.

I hear you, Mike!
My Comet is in bodyshop hell right now.
I told them I wanted what amounted to a stock paint job, single stage white. There is not a lot of bodywork and I also need some fiberglass parts repaired and fitted. They said they could do it for 5K.
It's been a couple of months and the excuses are mounting. Everything from covi-flu to it's too hot outside. May have to go get it at some point. It has given me time to restore some interior and exterior trim pieces and such.
I personally love trailer queens and think our collective hobby needs them. I'm too cheap to spend that kind of money on paint, especially white. I don't now, nor have I ever owned a trailer. If you have seen my junk at a race or show it was driven there.
How 'bout you, Mike? Own a trailer?
H

[mike7570]

I've seen your T-bird a couple of times, nice car. 5K paint job? No wonder no one is working on it    I sure can't find anything in that range.
Most of the starting prices of places I have gone to are 20K!  most of those no one would recognize the shop by name. I stopped in at Santini's in Westminster and they might be able to do it for 20K also.
I would feel more comfortable giving them that kind of money since they have experience painting some Shelby's and Eleanor's and are currently working on a '69 fastback for SEMA.
regarding a trailer, yep I have an enclosed trailer but it's a necessity for going to the track and makes an excellent 2nd garage for storing the overflow.

[machoneman]

Maybe try a high school shop where young folks try their hand at painting. That or brush up on what you need to learn in order to paint it yourself. It's not that hard with a one stage, one color paint job. Not ideal but better than how it looks now.
 

[Heo]

I've seen your T-bird a couple of times, nice car. 5K paint job? No wonder no one is working on it    I sure can't find anything in that range.
Most of the starting prices of places I have gone to are 20K!  most of those no one would recognize the shop by name. I stopped in at Santini's in Westminster and they might be able to do it for 20K also.
I would feel more comfortable giving them that kind of money since they have experience painting some Shelby's and Eleanor's and are currently working on a '69 fastback for SEMA.
regarding a trailer, yep I have an enclosed trailer but it's a necessity for going to the track and makes an excellent 2nd garage for storing the overflow.

This Thuesday, i liberarted our Packard rearfenders that was taken hostage by one bodyshop couple of years ago.  I took them to another bodyshop  were an old friend is the manager.  Today  before closing they painted them. So early tomorrow i go get them ... I must bring the guys a cake to go with the morning coffe for work well done......lets se the price tag

[Thumperbird]

Not as hard as you think, convert the garage to a paint booth, do your prep work, and have at it like a robot, practice on a fender or something.  Two stage not that bad and self satisfaction worth it, equipment and materail will run you ~$2k if you already have a decent compressor.  I did mine and while not a show job not bad in the end, used HOK products.
One full day of 3 paint coats plus 3 coats of clear, then of course there is several days of wet sanding and buffing it out.
After some 1500 and 2000 grit the 3M 3 stage products worked well.

[Blueoval77]

A little late on this one but this is the ridetech setup on my 70 . It being an R code I didnt want to alter the shock towers in it and the ridetech stuff changes the geometry so the wheels dont turn into wings on launch. I like the setup a ton better than the stock setup

[Rory428]

Although that Ridetech stuff looks pretty, none of it would be legal on a NHRA Stock Eliminator car.

[Blueoval77]

Well pretty is one thing . Getting rid of 9/10s of the junk that is at each corner of one of these is a big win.... I get it with the classes and have never really dove into the ins and outs of that one . I would think that as a "safety" upgrade (Yes I rolled my eyes a little) you could get some of that through....

[mike7570]

Update - Learned another lesson (well I knew about it before but..) when going for a nice paint job take into consideration the starting point of the car. While my car in the photo above doesn't look too bad if I paid more for a nicer car to start with I would probably have saved money. The shop has taken the body down to bare metal mostly by sanding and some by blasting.  This is where discovery of unseen problems not covered in the estimate come into play. They are finding bondo in all sorts of places poor workmanship and prep and how did my roof end up with enough pin holes that from the inside it looks like stars at night!  There wasn't much rust and the metal seems okay it's just full of little pin holes that were hiding under the paint. Welding and metal work is starting to add up and the prep going to exceed the painting cost by 3-1, ouch!

[Keith Stevens]

Mike: The cost of PPG paint and clear was about 2500.00. The color sanding and buffing was 40 hours. A decent job is 15-20K if it's painted in components and reassembled. I just went through this four years ago with no rust repair or sheet metal work. 
I think many doing actual restoration and not just a spray job are shocked at the cost involved.
Best of luck with your vehicle!

[cjshaker]

Not saying for sure this is what happened, but the damage you described to the roof sounds like the car may have burned at some point, or been in a building that burned. Extreme heat will change the metal and leave it very susceptible to rust pinholes, especially if it sees any moisture after the heating. It could also explain the other hidden body damage AND the lack of proper "prep". Metal that's been heated to that degree forms something that resembles parkerizing, and it's very difficult to work with. Hopefully everything works out okay.

[mbrunson427]

I'm sorry about your auto body surprises! This happened to us on the Starliner project, went to pick it up from the blaster and we had about 4 massive unexpected locations on the car that needed to be completely cut out and replaced. The guy at the blasting place told us he had become pretty immune to peoples poor reactions after 30 years of running that business.

It will be a nice car when it's all done!

[mike7570]

Car is still in paint jail, maybe another month or two. So I was getting bored and decide to mock up the engine to check the fit and decide if I should paint it. 
I think I'm going to leave it as is with just a black block. There is some mismatch at the valve cover rail I need to deal with but it looks like things will go together fine.
The short block is done but I'm waiting on a few things before I can button it up.

 

[Rory428]

Mike, nice looking engine, I see that you have the NHRA Edelbrock heads, but that Performer RPM intake and carb spacer sure don`t look that they would get thru Tech as a Stocker. Also, seems to be a side oiler block, is it sleeved down to 428 bore size? And do you plan to use those studs for the headers? I would think that they would hit the shock towers pretty badly.

[mike7570]

428 iron block, Shelby intake,  factory spacer and thick gaskets. The studs are probably too big, they’re from my old super gas car.

[Rory428]

OK, I thought that was an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, sure looks similar. I assumed it was a sideoiler block, due to the plug in the lower drivers side front of the block, never seen that on any 428. And I thought the only FEs that used a thick aluminum carb spacer like that, were early 60s full sized cars. I thought all the Mustangs that had a spacer were much thicker, Bakelite units. But then, I also always thought that all 67 GT500s had 2 4 barrels as well.

[mike7570]

BBM block, my understanding is any FE spacer is okay (it might not fit under the hood anyway) 2 four barrels is the norm street version. NHRA classification guide list the single and a Holley list #3418 850cfm carb.

[Keith Stevens]

Yes, all 1967 GT 500s come with the C7ZX dual quad medium riser intake and the BJ-BK Holley carbs.

[bsprowl]

The last time I checked NHRA factored the Shelby 428 with dual carbs at 395 HP.  It is just a CJ with the same cam as 390 GT. 

[mike7570]

Depending on the heads and intake a ‘67 GT500 can fit anywhere from D/S with a 350hp rating (probably under factored and would be a fast car) to AA/SA with two carbs and F5 heads rated at 440hp.
Picking a combo to race depends on the availability of good (unaltered) factory stuff or NHRA approved replacements. It also can be influenced by other racers that “hit” or lower the index. An example is the small valve head in some configurations has a higher hp rating than a large valve head.
I spent some time with Blair listening to his advise on which combo was going to be more advantageous to use based on the current hp factors and parts availability.

[Keith Stevens]

The two "stock" 428 PI Shelby engines I saw run on the dyno produced less than 370 HP.
The C7AE-A head is about as bad as it gets.

[mike7570]

Car is still at paint, it's been almost 11 months, it's ready for color and may get done in a few more weeks. In the meantime, I figured out how to put a 5" tach in a 4 1/4' gauge opening.
It involves cutting the plastic and providing an opening in the back of the mounting frame to insert the tach in between.

[Gregwill16]

Looks good!

[hbstang]

Car is still at paint, it's been almost 11 months, it's ready for color and may get done in a few more weeks. In the meantime, I figured out how to put a 5" tach in a 4 1/4' gauge opening.
It involves cutting the plastic and providing an opening in the back of the mounting frame to insert the tach in between.

are you in orange county ca?when i had my 68 mustang coupe converted to a fastback,i decided to do all the body work and primer myself.i used eastwoods roll on primer system.took everything down to bare metal.it probably saved me a bunch.i only worked a few hours a day on it,but its ready for final paint.didnt save much time,but have a painter close whos going to paint it soon.should know more next week when we do it.he works out of his house and painted a friends 67 fastback.

[mike7570]

I was at the paint shop yesterday checking on the car. It's ready for color but I don't have a firm date. (soon?)
The shop is very busy with a good reputation, but they are shorthanded and can't find good help.  Not too many shops I went to were even interested in doing a full body paint and prep.

[Rory428]

Looking good, Mike, have you decided on a color yet?  When I was at the NHRA National Event at Maple Grove PA after the FE Reunion, there were 2 Shelby Stockers there, Ryan Horensky, and Bill Hawk.

[mike7570]

Center top

[John67427]

Almost there Mike, will be an extremely nice car!

[mike7570]

Getting closer

[mbrunson427]

Sweet! That's going to be nice

[mike7570]

Some assembly required! Lol
Getting closer, needs final buff then over to another shop for front and rear windows and headliner. After that it’s back to my garage for the rest of the interior and drive train.

[hbstang]

nice,thats the best when its getting close after all the hard work.!

[mbrunson427]

Nice! I love it

[mike7570]

My Mustang / Shelby is finally back home but still in the trailer. While waiting 20 months for the paint and body work to be finished my garage accumulated a lot more stuff and the car won’t fit inside. I’m working on getting it cleaned up and setting up some room for the final assembly

[mbrunson427]

Looks awesome Mike!

[turbohunter]

She’s a beaut’ Mike.

[cjshaker]

Looks great, Mike.
Question: How are you keeping the paint from cracking on the nose piece? I know they're somewhat flexible. On newer stuff, they have a flex additive for the paint on flimsy pieces, but they have to be installed within a certain amount of time. If too long, the paint can crack from the flexing during install.

[mike7570]

I hope it doesn’t crack ! The front nose is stiffer than you would think, the only flexible area is just above the bumper that makes up the lower part of the upper grill opening. I believe the hood will flex more than the front nose piece. I have had 3 cars with fiberglass hoods (one original Shelby) and I didn’t  have any premature cracking in the paint on them. It may appear down the road as the car ages but the fiberglass is all new.
I may ask the paint shop next time I see them to find out what they think.

[mike7570]

Out in the sun wearing trailer tires, time to get busy putting it together.

[Heo]

Nice paintjob

[Gregwill16]

Beautiful!

[Jim Kramer]

It's gonna be a shame to put decals on it......Jim Kramer

[cjshaker]

It's gonna be a shame to put decals on it......Jim Kramer

Agreed. It's beautiful as is.

[mbrunson427]

Looks stunning! I'm excited to see it built

[mike7570]

It's gonna be a shame to put decals on it......Jim Kramer

NO DECALS (Lol) other than the GT500 stripes. The NHRA decal can be placed on the door window with the car number and class designation.
Should I use solid white numbers or blue outlined or some sort of fade?

[Nightmist66]

Love the color, Mike! Looking forward to seeing it finished.

[hbstang]

a video about your car from santini and the car and paint looks spectacular so NO DECALS  on the painted surfaces lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNzS5QAaW-4

[mike7570]

a video about your car from santini and the car and paint looks spectacular so NO DECALS  on the painted surfaces lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNzS5QAaW-4

Thanks for that link. I knew it was being filmed but I thought it had to do with a detailing product. Turns out it looks like a shop promotion video. I changed the door handles to brand new one because Pete was mad that I would re-use the old ones that I thought were good enough for a race car.  He said it was ruining his paint work LOL, It probably took me twice as long as it should have because I’m so nervous working around the new paint. Finished up the tail light panel and installed it and now I’m getting the engine compartment ready and fussing with installing the interior.

[Rory428]

Car is looking fantastic Mike, hoping to have it out for this season at all? I have only ever had a few cars repainted, and yes, the paranoia while working around fresh paint is very real, especially when it comes to installing the bumpers, trim, and lighting. Makes one wonder how the factories prevented damage during assembly, especially on full frame cars during the body drop onto the frame, or installing the front "nose" as a 1 piece unit. Let alone stuff like the fake wood grain trim on Country Squires, side stripes on cars like Boss 302s or 71 Torino GTs, and how did they install the cloth or vinyl headliners, or vinyl and convertible tops in a minute or so?

[machyoung]

Looking Fantastic Mike!

[mike7570]

Rory, I was hoping to make the Bakersfield double in October. I have a lot to do and I won’t have time to put the engine on a dyno but I hope to be able to make a few test passes at Irwindale 1/8 mile. I may be a bit optimistic because life has a habit of getting in the way and everything seems to take much longer than planned.
For the guys not familiar to be NHRA compliant as a stocker all of the original interior and trim needs to be on the car except the rear seats. I can’t bring myself to put a worn out interior back in so it’s refurbished or new parts which can create lots of new problems with off shore reproduction pieces.

[mike7570]

Got most of the interior finished, it’s a bit difficult and frustrating working on a car that the interior must have been removed and reinstalled numerous times. The combination of stripped holes and repo parts that don’t fit will give you headaches. I did install my first headliner which came out pretty good but I couldn’t use the deluxe door panels because the molded arm rest won’t clear the door bar. No back seat needed in stock eliminator so just a carpeted light weight shelf.

[mike7570]

Glass back in and engine sitting between the fenders.

[mike7570]

Some dash work - getting closer

[mike7570]

Some difficult headers to install. Large tube headers are much more difficult than the normal street header sizes.

[TomP]

I've always found the large tube easier because they come apart in sections. No need to jack the engine, pull starter, motor mounts or clutch linkage.

 Car looks great but I think i'm spotting the curse of the long term project... rule changes. Now the D/SA cars have run 9's (Teuton's 09 Challenger as I recall) can you fit the car in any classes that won't need a full cage?

[mike7570]

Your correct on not needing to jack and tilt the engine (it would still help) the starter did have to come out because of that. I went further and separated each tube but when you put them in if you don’t do it in the right order you’re pulling it apart again. I also have this issue of putting a bolt in every hole. It would be easier doing top and bottom but I put 14 out of 16 in each side.

Cage isn’t required until 9.99 or quicker. The B/SA index is 11.25 so a 9.99 is 1.26 under which gets you added hp when they review the combos (now at the end of the year.) A 9 sec. Run is a stout number for any stocker including AA so most guys to avoid the added hp penalty try to stay between .600 - .800 under. There are other concerns once your in the 9’s as far as safety items and a license upgrade.
I don’t know if I will be able to run that far under but I would prefer to keep it in the 10’s.

[Jb427]

Car looks great Mike I really like that colour

[mike7570]

Fired up the motor for break in and was able to back it into the garage. No more pushing for this old guy. Lol
Still need seats and belts and swap out the break in springs. After those items a good alignment and bleed the brakes and it will be ready for some test passes.

[XR7]

Looking good! Well better than good... it looks great everywhere. I bet you are excited to make the first hit and many more. Where and when do you think you will race your first divisional? Any thought to the 10K to win Stock/Super-stock combo in Vegas in March?

[mike7570]

Maybe Las Vegas divisional in April. i would like to sort out the car and get some runs on it before entering a points meet. If I’m a little unsure I have it ready I can get some more laidback competition at Bakersfield that same weekend for the ANRA opener a little closer to home and about half the cost.

[mike7570]

Current view, car sits too low in front searching for some new springs.

[thatdarncat]

Stunning!

[machoneman]

Clean, very clean engine and compartment.

[hbstang]

( I get a bit jealous reading about everyone's projects while mine sits idle. I just can't seem to find the time to get much done.
 Well my 10yr project made a little progress, I got the new 9" rear in the car. I had everything measured for a tight tire fit (I got good suggestions from Afret) but as fate would have it the axle housing came back 1" narrower than planned when the housing ends were changed. I think everything will work out with a 3/8" spacer. I haven't run spacers on a drag car before, anyone with a comment on running them or not?)


10 years ago you started this thread,on a 10 year project.great job on getting it done!most people would have sold it off! car is really nice and i would like to see it run.where do you plan to run it?

[mike7570]

I sold my Super-Gas mustang after my wife and I adopted a couple of children (babies). I put aside some of the proceeds and about 7yrs later I drug home a barely running 68 fastback J code. I put it away in my warehouse at work and slowly started to accumulate parts. When my son turned 15 I thought I had a great father/son project to build a new race car together. To my disappointment he wasn’t very interested in working on the car, so the car sat in the garage. I would purchase new parts when good deals presented themselves and worked on it by myself between raising my kids and running a new business. The car progressed slowly as you can tell by the dates. I finally got going in earnest when I hit retirement age and my kids were starting to leave the household. (Although they came back numerous times lol) It seemed to hit some big delays because of COVID and supply problems. I’ve worked on it in my spare time and since it finally came back from 21 month paint jail I’ve given it as much attention as I could.
The car is running now and I finished up the wiring and installed seats and belts. I missed the division 7 opener in Phoenix last week, the next race is in Las Vegas but I don’t want to take it there without any runs on it. So my plans are to make some 1/8 miles test runs at Irwindale or haul it out to Bakersfield in April for a nostalgia race and use it as a TnT (reasonable cost and laid back atmosphere) I do have a ski vacation booked at the end of March that could upset my plan, we’ll see.

[mike7570]

A little start up video, loading up to take to alignment shop.
Well if I can figure out how to post it. I had a link but it said it expired. I’m a bit computer challenged. Lol
https://youtube.com/shorts/MFGe2U5PSTI?feature=share

[mbrunson427]

Sounds great!

[cjshaker]

Sounds like a race car.
Can't wait to hear how things work out on the track. What specs are you aiming for on the front end alignment? If I remember right, you did the Shelby drop, didn't you?

[Stangman]

Sounds great can’t wait to see some track videos

[mike7570]

Finally taking the car out for some shakedown runs at Bakersfield this weekend. It’s been a long time, hopefully things go smoothly and I get some decent passes. Oh yea, added the side stripes and expecting new springs to settle a bit.

[mbrunson427]

Mike, I see that you put the line lock button on the brake pedal. Our car we got from Richie was set up like that as well. I've been scratching my head wondering why that's a benefit over having the button on the shifter or something like that.

I left the button there and figured we'd try it.

[mike7570]

Mike, that’s the 2step button. (Per NHRA stocker rules) The line lock is on top of the shifter, it can be anywhere convenient.
Did your wiring on the brake pedal go to the line lock or was it just hanging?

[mbrunson427]

Mike, that’s the 2step button. (Per NHRA stocker rules) The line lock is on top of the shifter, it can be anywhere convenient.
Did your wiring on the brake pedal go to the line lock or was it just hanging?

Ahhh, got it. This makes much more sense. Yes when we got the car the wiring was just dangling. I'm glad I asked.

[Heo]

Hey Mike, Incredible beautyful car,,,,Incredible beautyful

[Rory428]

Car looks fantastic, Mike. Hope you have a successful shake down sesion this weekend, and no bugs to work out. Looking forward to a full report Sunday night or Monday!

[mike7570]

Shakedown update:
I was a little disappointed with the car last weekend. I had higher expectations of the car (and the driver) because of 15yr of previous race experience running a tunnel port in both super street and super gas. I knew going in my tires could be an issue because I purchased them when I was mocking up the rear axle. I looked it up and the slicks are 9yrs old! They haven't been on the car or even outdoors, but they probably need replacing. Before this trip the car has only moved under power in and out of my garage and from my trailer to the alignment shop.

The Good - I warmed it up driving around the pits and took it up for a cautious 1st pass. Footbrake from idle ran down the track at a little over 100mph. The car rides very nice and straight, the brakes worked great, The oil pressure turning off the track was 40lb at idle and the temp didn't get above 180. It never even pushed any water out of a 7lb radiator cap all weekend. The alternator kept the battery up and I never put it on the charger.

The Bad - The 1st pass didn't go much over 100mph because the driver couldn't figure out why it wouldn't shift into 3rd gear. It dawned on the dummy that you need to pull the lever on the Hurst 3sp shifter going from 2nd to 3rd (but not from 1st to 2nd) my previous race car was a powerglide and you just bumped it from 1st to 2nd. By the time I was in 3rd gear the finish line was only about 30 yards away so I lifted to check the gauges and try out the brakes. (11.70et)
Now I'm ready for a serious run on the 2nd pass. I brought some rpm up against the converter (still foot braking) and nailed the throttle. moved somewhat slow and hit the shift light and rev limiter almost immediately.  Blew the tires off in 1st gear so I shifted to 2nd rather than lift and I remembered to shift correctly into 3rd. I was amazed how smoothly the engine runs and sounds compared to my other FE's until at about 1000' where it hit the rev limiter again and I feathered the throttle to try not to sit on the limiter the rest of the way. (11.30et only 116mph on the 7200rpm limiter, 1.75 60ft. 18psi in the slicks)
The next pass was Sunday, in the morning I took the car down to the far end of the pits and onto the track shut down area to try the 2step. I lowered the tires down to 15psi and raised the rev limiter, I was hoping I could get it to hook and see what it could do. Running it up a little in 1st gear on the way I noticed a stumble in it and got concerned. I took it back to my pit and pulled a few plugs and went through the plug wires and didn't find anything. It was time for the 1st round so I figured I would go back to footbrake and hope the lower tire pressure would help hook it up. On the burnout it had the miss back when the rpms got higher. I staged it and hit the gas on the green, it stumbled in 1st gear so I shifted to 2nd and it cleaned up for a moment and then started shooting ducks. I clicked it off and took it back to load up and head home to trouble shoot the cause.

[Rory428]

Sorry that you had some issues Mike, but a brand new car, engine, the whole combination, teething pains are to be expected. Hopefully you get the bugs sorter out in short order. As an aside, certainly wasn`t a bad weekend for every Shelby drag racer on the West Coast. Tony Hewes won the Super Stock title yesterday at Vegas, with his 69 Shelby GT500 Super Stocker. Even cooler, it was a heads up, all SS/FA final, which Tony won in convincing manner, with a 1.19 under 9.44 ET, which handily beat the 396 Camaro in the other lane, despite the Camaro driver having a good reaction time advantage. Tony had been running 9.8s in the earlier rounds, but picked up the pace for the heads up final.

[mike7570]

Sorry that you had some issues Mike, but a brand new car, engine, the whole combination, teething pains are to be expected. Hopefully you get the bugs sorter out in short order. As an aside, certainly wasn`t a bad weekend for every Shelby drag racer on the West Coast. Tony Hewes won the Super Stock title yesterday at Vegas, with his 69 Shelby GT500 Super Stocker. Even cooler, it was a heads up, all SS/FA final, which Tony won in convincing manner, with a 1.19 under 9.44 ET, which handily beat the 396 Camaro in the other lane, despite the Camaro driver having a good reaction time advantage. Tony had been running 9.8s in the earlier rounds, but picked up the pace for the heads up final.

I really wanted to be in Vegas last weekend rather than Bakersfield but it’s just not ready for some serious racing. (Neither am I, yet) I just couldn’t get everything I needed and then some seat time to go.
The next division 7 race is way off in the fall, I hope to have it sorted out better by then.

[Stangman]

Alright Mike like Rory said hey first time out. Was anyone with you to feel the tires after the burnout to see if they were sticky. Nine years is a long time but might still be good if indoors. As far as the misfire I would just go over the basics you know plug gaps and check porcelain for cracks ignition wires for proper crimps. I know we always try to do everything perfect but hey it’s hotrodding. It wouldn’t be any fun if everything went right.

[mbrunson427]

Mike, not sure what you have in it for ignition, but I'd check out the power to that to eliminate as an issue. Our drag car had all the symptoms of a fuel delivery issue, chased it for weeks and we were kind of stumped. Just turned out to be an MSD box that had bad power run to it and it was bugging out. Really frustrating

[Rory428]

Mike, when you did your burnout, did the slicks smoke right away? I have always found that fresh slicks wil smoke right away, but old hard tires, take much longer to get the smoke rolling off them. Hardly scientific, but could indicate how subtle the rubber compound is after sitting several years. Also, soft tires will usually have lots of rocks sticking to them, but older tires don`t cause the rocks to stick as well. And, are they bias or radial slicks? I have never used radial slicks, they tend not to work very well with stickshift cars, but from talking with Stocker and S/S racers with radials, that once they start spinning, they just don`t recover like a bias slick will. And the radials usually will work with higher pressures than a bias tire, but they also don`t grow as much at high speed.

[cjshaker]

Mike, when you did your burnout, did the slicks smoke right away? I have always found that fresh slicks wil smoke right away, but old hard tires, take much longer to get the smoke rolling off them. Hardly scientific, but could indicate how subtle the rubber compound is after sitting several years. Also, soft tires will usually have lots of rocks sticking to them, but older tires don`t cause the rocks to stick as well.

My Mickey Thompson ET/Streets never did smoke. I made sure when I got them that they had a recent date, and it was within a month or two from purchase as I recall. Even 2nd gear burnouts in the box produced no smoke. I always thought that was odd because everyone else at the track would always smoke pretty good on the burnouts. They have NO problem picking up rocks though. Even on the street, a rolling spin in first and a slight spin when hitting 2nd is enough to heat them up enough to grab every stone in my driveway and throw it up under the wheelwell. I've had some traction issues from the get-go, and despite making changes to the Cal Tracs, shocks and tire pressure, it seemed hit or miss. I always wondered if the tires were at least part of the issue. I guess only a different set would tell me.

If MSD is involved in the ignition, after checking power and grounds, first thing I'd try is a different pickup, then go from there. I've had more than a fair share of issues with those crappy pickups.

[mike7570]

Rory, no smoke and now that you mentioned it no little pebbles or rocks stuck to the tires at all. I remember my Firestones on my super gas car would pick them up like crazy. The noise driving back to the pits with all the little pebbles hitting the aluminum wheel tubes was loud!
I’m leaning toward a lean miss but it didn’t get noticeable until the second day. The air was only slightly better that day and hard to figure how a small change caused the problem. The rocker and new valve springs were all fine and all the plug wires were making good contact.
I think I will jet up 3 or 4 sizes, raise the rev limiter farther away from the shift light rpm and order some new tires. Oh, and some new plugs also.
Looking at the plugs that came out #2, #6 and #8 look like they are running a bit too lean.
What do you guys think?

[Stangman]

I can see that. I can see how 8 could be lean being farther away but 2 and 6 is odd. No way lash is to tight in those cylinders right like a valve staying open.