Need advice on Building my first FE 390 for my S code Mach1

[Fine69mach1]

I`m new to this Forum and am looking for some advice, tips or suggestions before I start building my First 390.
I will give you some background on my setup
1969 Mustang Mach 1 , rebuilt C6 with stock speed converter and shift kit, 9" 3.91 posi rearend. 28" tire 275/60/15
1966 Block, 9.5 CR stock Crank & Rods, new timing chain and oil pump
Edelbrock Aluminum Performer RPM heads out of the box stock
390 Streetmaster intake
750 Holley dbl pumper
MSD Distributor
1 3/4" Primary hooker headers, 2 1/2 dual exhaust
Car has power steering and power brakes.

I have left out the Cam. I will be going hyd. I want a nice chop at idle. That is where I need advice from you more experienced FE guys. 
I was thinking 270H or something in the 220-230 dur @.50 with a .500-.540 range lift. what LSA is good. 110?
Without a converter can I get away with a 275DEH or 280H with my set-up?
is a split duration/lift better for my application?

How will these Ed heads react to such cams? More lift better they will perform?

Also can I run my stock valvetrain with shafts/rockers with these cam choices or should I upgrade to aftermarket?

I've been doing research trying to nail this down. I would like to get round 400Hp. It will be a street car, mostly weekend driver, car shows and such, not racing but will take it to the track to see what it can do.

[ScotiaFE]

imho you need to seriously look at your converter.
If you get into a cam where you start making power at say 2800 rpm then you really want a
converter that will let the engine spin up to and bit past to take full advantage of the power of the cam.
Hard to beat a set of adjustable rockers for fit.
All those other things are great.

A stock all Edelbrock top end, heads, rpm intake and cam #7106
on top of a solid 390 will get you 400 plus hp. Should have no problem
with the Streetmaster. Great intake.
 
You'll be able to smoke the hides at will.


 

[jayb]

I think a 270H will work fine for that combination, but you could go up a step and still be fine with your compression ratio.  I agree with Howie that stepping up to a higher stall converter, say 2800-3000 RPM, would make a significant difference.  The Edelbrock heads and Streetmaster intake, carb and headers that you have collected will work really well together.  400 HP should be achievable, especially if you went up one step on the cam, and the stock valvetrain should also handle this with no problem.

[My427stang]

I agree with the guys completely.

I'd go XE274H or 280H as a second choice and put a converter in it at the same time.  I am not a fan of the DEH series generally, but it'd do fine too.

Keep in mind that with a stock deck height, stock pistons and Edelbrocks you'll probably be .015 below deck or so and more like 9:1 compression.  If that is the case, you may want to cut the deck to get closer to zero deck.  It'll help with power and detonation resistance

If there is ANY chance that the motor could have truck 390 pistons, hit the brakes and come up with a new plan.  They can be way below deck and you could end up at 8:1 compression.  If that is the case, only new pistons or a 428 crank can get you back to where you want to be.  If its together, just measure how far below deck at TDC, it'll be clear as day if you have truck pistons

[bn69stang]

Listen to these guy s and you ll be fine , imo  go with a bit more converter and i would look at the comp xe 274 h .. i was going to run that cam before i decided to go hydraulic roller . The rest of your parts will be fine ..Bud

[Fine69mach1]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I am leaning towards the 270H but I will price out a converter and see if I can squeeze it into my budget.
If I got to the 280H or XE 274H without a new converter do you think I will suffer below 2500 rpm even with the 3:91 gears? These cams will wake the motor up a bit more than the 270H?
I got 2 blocks to use. A virgin 66 390 2V with 50k original miles on it or a .30 over block I bought of a guy which came out of a 69 mustang claims to be original motor but when I got it and looked at it, the only casting numbers on the entire block besides 352 was on the back casting above cam to the left 66-427.
I'm guessing they used an old 427 cast when the made that block way back when.

[My427stang]

A 270H is a truck cam IMHO

Matter of fact, I ran one in a low compression 390 in a 4x4 with 33 inch tall tires and 3.50 gears, it idled smooth and pulled down to where you could count the cylinders even with a Street Dominator and a 750.  Too little cam for the gear you have, mostly due to lift IMHO, the duration could live if you did some good port work on the heads and intake, but the short lift cheats even stock heads. 

[ScotiaFE]

Truck cam. Good one.

Seriously though if all your going to do is put around town and go to shows the 280h will be fine.
Start at 12* initial timing and 36* total all in by 2800 rpm.
You might find a 750 vacuum secondary may be better for low speed with the C6 and stock converter.

As for the block pick the one you like the most and have good check up and build it up.
The 66 427  back is actually somewhat common. Still just a good old 390 though.

[Fine69mach1]

In not building the car to race however I am still looking to get as much performance out of it as I can. I will put my foot into it from time to time and will take it down to my local 1/4 mile track to see what she's got.
I'm just a little concerned about going too big with a can and not being happy with bottom end while driving street light to street light.
My previous motor was a 351 Cleveland 4v and I had that problem with thise big breathing heads and a little too much cam, it was a slug under 3000rpm. 
I am planning to 0 deck the block and be around 10:1 cr ( although may drop to 9.5:1 after assembled)
I got the link to try and clean up my streetmaster intake.
Do any of you know how the streetmaster ports match up to the Edelbrock alum head ports of hand?

Thanks for all the feedback so far guys, I really appreciate it.

[afret]

If you go to a cam of around 230* at .05 lift, the stock converter won't be a very good choice.  When I got my 69 Mustang it had a Clay Smith 230* hydraulic and stock converter.  It was a slug and launched slower than a loaded school bus with 4 flat tires. It couldn't do a burnout with the rear tires sitting in a pool of synthetic oil.
 
You have a nice rear gear ratio so a 3000-3500 stall 10 inch converter will work great with a bigger cam.  You just need to add a trans fluid cooler.  The car will launch like it should and it also won't lurch when you shift into gear and you can run the idle higher if you want without the car wanting to creep.  It will work fine on the highway too.

You might consider a solid lifter cam instead of a hydraulic.  You won't have to adjust the lash very often and your engine will be able to rev higher.  You can tune it a bit too if you want by playing with the amount of lash.  You will need a set of adjustable rockers though.

If you haven't bought headers yet, the FPA headers will give you a lot more ground clearance especially if your car is lowered.  I had a set of the street Hookers that I modified so I could install the tubes individually but ended up giving them away and went to the FPA for ground clearance. 

Also have you considered getting rid of the power brake booster and power steering?  It's a lot easier to work on the engine without that booster in the way and the power steering is kind of a pain with headers.  I took both off when I got the car 30 years ago.   

[My427stang]

Good advice through this entire thread

Some comments

1 - The small ports / long stroke (compared to a 351C) will be a completely different animal.  In addition, the intake port length is long, and the 1 3/4 primaries all contribute to torque.

2 - I was harsh with the 270H being a truck cam, but it is a relatively mild cam.    FWIW Barry did a dyno of one pretty close here, keep in mind it is well under 400 hp and peaks real low.

http://fefordtech.com/index.php?topic=40.0

It's a nice motor, but really for a 3.25 or 3.50 gear car, it starts to flatten out around 4900, and that is exactly what I saw on my 396 inch truck motor.



3 - What I think I am reading between the lines is that you are trying to stay on a budget.  We all do, so that is fine, but keep in mind, if you choose not to go converter and try to go stock valve train and a 270H, you are mismatched in gear ratio, not the end of the world, but you are giving up some significant power and then the power you have is really not matched well to your gearing.  Not the worst I have seen with your tall tires, but still not ideal

We all love strokers in here, so I'd love to spend your money on a 445, but if you do intend to run 3.91s, my recommendation would be a 2800-3000 stall converter, a set of adjustable rockers with end stands (rollers would be best) and a 282S Comp Cam (it will be slightly milder than a 280H or XE274H)  The budget will get hit, but in the end it will a very very nice match

Another option for a cam is something like I ended up with from Bullet.  I basically built a 282S but spread the centers to 112 to get idle a bit smoother and put it on a 104 centerline to keep vacuum reasonable.  We'd have to know the actual details of your pistons, deck height, etc to determine if that would be a good choice for you, but I loved it.  Best of both worlds with some decent lift and duration but maintained idle and vacuum.  Keep in mind mine is in a 445 but, it is also 3.50 geared, 4200 lbs, and 33 inch tall tires.

Here is a video to hear it at idle.

http://s528.photobucket.com/user/My427stang/media/VIDEO0015_zps3f24a13c.mp4.html

[fe66comet]

Do the main cap upgrade now, I did not and now wish I had. It is extra insurance for future upgrades.

[plovett]

My opinion:    Go with a little more stall speed, like 2500 rpm, a tighter lobe separation, and more lift.  I like this Crower 224/232.  I think this combo would fly.  Check it out:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cro-16255/overview/make/ford

and from the Crower website:

http://www.crower.com/camshafts/ford-332-428-hi-draulic-hauler-cam-280-hdp.html

If you really want to keep the stock converter I like the 270H Magnum or something smaller.  It has less seat duration than the Crower and less overlap.  Your 3.91 gears do help a lot in that respect. 

JMO,

paulie

[afret]

My opinion:    Go with a little more stall speed, like 2500 rpm, a tighter lobe separation, and more lift.  I like this Crower 224/232.  I think this combo would fly.  Check it out:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cro-16255/overview/make/ford

and from the Crower website:

http://www.crower.com/camshafts/ford-332-428-hi-draulic-hauler-cam-280-hdp.html

If you really want to keep the stock converter I like the 270H Magnum or something smaller.  It has less seat duration than the Crower and less overlap.  Your 3.91 gears do help a lot in that respect. 

JMO,
paulie

Yeah, that Crower is a nice little cam.   Ran that on my Mustang for a little while.

[bn69stang]

Well said guy s , even the power brake part my lunati street master cam with 228 @ .50 mess s with booster a bit so listen to these guy s when picking your parts and you will be fine , just be sure about your plan and try to avoid assembly of the plan and then disappointment wishing you would went with more or less of a cam , converter , ect and good luck with your build and welcome to the forum .. Bud