first post, first FE, dumb questions

[habu]

Hello,
  Not a stranger to ford engines, 385 primarily, but a complete n00b to FE engines. This being my first post I apologize upfront for not going back far enough or probably missing something in the search that's probably going to answer my question. The engine is going into a 69 F250 replacing the 390 2V that was the original engine. Truck use, almost daily driving. No real towing, no real strip use. Want it to move when I step on the loud pedal.

About the engine.
390, bored to .60.
C8AE heads with no real work done to them
Streetmaster intake, no porting
Crower 268H 16915 cam, springs (it looks like I went too conservative in cam)
Adjustable rocker valve train, oil restrictors, .070 holley jets in the oil passage to head.
MSD drop in ready to run distributor
Holley 750 vacuum secondary
Doug Thorley Headers
TransGo reprogramming performed to C6 on back-end.
Rear Gear I think is 3.54 ?? some odd number. It's a dana 60, oh and a 2WD.

Engine was a long block from the engine shop that did all the work, picked up motor ready from intake to pan.
In the slow, slow process of disassembling the truck and getting ready to plop in the new motor I realized, to my dismay, that the heater and water temp bosses on the intake were stripped enough that the intake had to come off. Took intake to a more local engine shop, not original builder who should have warned or alerted me to this, and they also milled down the intake surface because it was pitted enough around the water passages to warrant the milling of the surface. They also fixed welded and retapped the stripped bosses.

On to my problem. Putting the intake on this evening, there are serious gaps between the block and the ends of the intake. The intake and head aligns pretty well but WOW the gaps are bad. Using Edelbrock gaskets I laid down a bead of silicone on the block to seal the intake. I've read that many only use the silicone. If I didn't use the cork or rubber end seals is that explaining the gaps or is it because the intake was surfaced. Is this normal ?

sorry about the flickr links. Need to get the photos over to photo bucket or figure out how to link Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/86135415@N00/12356977324/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/86135415@N00/12356962574/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/86135415@N00/12356977324/

[428Marauder]

Those aren't dumb questions at all. I'm sure one of the more knowledgable people around here will respond quickly. Welcome to the forums!

[fastback 427]

From the photos looks OK to me. I use to always use the cork end gaskets but they always seemed to squeeze out or oil soak and leak. Last time tried Barry robatanicks method and just used motorcraft diesel grade silicone only on the ends. Two years and no leaks. I don't know how much you know bout fe's but make sure to drop dizzy in before torquing manifold down.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Yeah, I can never use the cork gaskets.  I use the black RTV in a caulk gun tube (Just don't go to the parts store and ask for Black Caulk...  ya never know whatcha gonna get).  Yeah, sometimes the gap looks pretty large.  I use the silicone bead and let it setup a little bit.
Don't forget the annoying water bypass hose too when doing all this.

For future reference, If pitting around the coolant is an issue, I'd rather use jb weld, and file it flat than mill the whole intake.
also understand .060 over 390 may be at the end of its usage (meaning, you probably won't be able to rebuild with this block again)


Good luck!

[habu]

Thank you and since it was at night, the pics are spotty. I didn't use Barry's silicon recommendation, just a really good bead along the block, the problem is there is about, guesstimating here, a 1/8 gap between the block and intake at the ends. Thanks for the reminder about the distributor. Will make sure to do that. Last night I just wanted the intake on and then spend this weekend to do the rest. The gap at the end bummed me out to stop for the evening.

Also, minor issue but frustrating as well. bought the ARP intake bolt kit. The long bolts for the intake runners on either side are too long to use you have to sort of put 'em in sideways til they bottom out on the intake (intake off engine), but when it's on the engine the bottom of the bolt of course hits the head/gasket and isn't in alignment to screw in because the rest of the bolt can't get past the runner.

[Bad Byrd]

This is common place for the Fe and SBC world.....................I truly dont understand the reason for no good quality gaskets.........................I wont use cork IMHO it is the worst damned material to use. Good luck there seems to be some good remedy's for a problem that has been existing for quite some time.

[My427stang]

My experience is that cork doesnt leak if assembled properly, but admittedly there are many options nowadays, any of which take a little thinking. 

I will say though, no 2 cork end seals manufacturers seem to be the same, my favorite combo is Mr G intake gaskets and Felpro end seals.  The Mr G end seals dont match up well to the intake gasket tabs

[bn69stang]

LOL  Drew , yeah i say use Barry s method , or black  r t v .. my cork gaskets are leaking now a lil bit so different approach next time around .. Bud

[Bad Byrd]

My experience is that cork doesnt leak if assembled properly, but admittedly there are many options nowadays, any of which take a little thinking. 

I will say though, no 2 cork end seals manufacturers seem to be the same, my favorite combo is Mr G intake gaskets and Felpro end seals.  The Mr G end seals dont match up well to the intake gasket tabs

I cant say I agree with you, I think that if installed properly they wont leak............for many years but they will get hard and will leak over time. I have seen it many times. I would take a neoprene gasket any day over a cork gasket. I have been building cars and Bikes for 30 yrs and I have seen more weeping cork gaskets then any other gasket, I have yet to assy a motor with neoprene or rubber gaskets and had them leak.

[My427stang]

Well we can agree to disagree.  However, I do agree wish there was a nice neoprene end gasket and a way to trap it, because you'd need to find a way to keep it located with little bungs and drilled holes, or long legs over the edges to keep it from moving, not sure you could with the gaps we see on FEs. 

Far different than a short and thin SBF or SBCs.  The thick neoprene doesn't like when its not trapped.  Think SBC pan gasket, they make rails to fit it in, just gluing one in place without rails would be a nightmare.

I learned my technique on school buses and F-series dump trucks in the 80s, heavy manifolds that you didn't want to do twice, especially laying deep over a truck radiator support, and equally didn't want to tie up the bay because it would eat into flat rate waiting for silicone to dry or be a free job if it leaked 

I glue the bottom down with 3M, contact cement style on both pieces, and now I have adjusted to using a little Right Stuff as lubricant when I drop the manifold.  It slides and lets the cork stay in place. 

I have been touting this for a long time, heck been on the FE forum since 1995 and haven't changed my tune except for one difference.

The only difference from back then, RTV used to be slippery snot when oil was near and that is why I didn't like running a bead down a flat joint.  The new silicone adhesives like Ford Grey, Right Stuff and other brands seems to stay put, but even they haven't been out THAT long.  However, like I said, they need a little thought too, push some into a return and you'll be whining.

I actually considered trying no end gasket on my 445, I figured I would cut a ridge across the china wall and match it on the intake, creating a groove to hold the silicone.  Then I looked at the gap and said why bother and used an end gasket

To each their own though, I truly want you to do whatever you want to do to your own motor, but mine and those that I do for others will use end seals, neoprene if designed for them, cork if not, unless there is no room for them, and generally, if there is no room, I will fix the manifold

[fastback 427]

I'd like to add that the first time I tried the motorcraft diesel gasket maker I was very nervous. Many years ago I had a buddy that had a 55 chev with a BBC, aka Big Bacon Cheese : when watching his engine builder install the intake he used  TWO TUBES of ultra black. Three months later the engine blew. Upon taking the pan off the pickup screen was completely clogged with........ ultra black. Engine was oil starved, bearings gone and 10 cracks in the crank. The motorcraft gasket maker is much harder than black silicone. I think either method sure has their merits.

[Ratbird]

I think it all comes down to experience. If you've done enough of them you have the practice and can make the gaskets work fine. If you don't have experience (like me) then test fit it together and see how fat a bead you will need to make it seal without gaskets. I kept the bead as far from the inside an possible and let it squish out externally. I then cleaned it up on the outside after it dried.
When I took it in to be rebuilt the very experienced FE builder used gaskets, he swore he never gets leaks. He said my job without the gaskets looked good on the inside and didn't appear to have caused any problems.

Anyway, that's my rookie 2 cents worth.