Engine Advice for '67 Mustang Fastback

[Agar426]

If you have the Edelbrocks, a Performer RPM, a 750/780 carb and a set of headers you should be able to give the Runner a good scare.  I used to be able to hunt 383 cars with similar stuff back in the proverbial day.  Just stay away from the 440 cars until you get the stroker and some cam in there - darn Mopes 440s are pretty strong on the street....experience talkin' here...

You know.....I was born in 1970, but if I was driving back in '67-'68, I can understand the frustration the Ford contingent must have had with 383 Mopars and 396 Chevy's out there, and they get blessed with a passenger car version of the 390.  Shouldn't have to add all kinds of aftermarket goodies just to be able to hang with a 383 or 396.  Can't wait for that stroker!  I've only had the car a couple of weeks, but I my head is swimming with ideas ( and with thoughts of needed repairs....steering, cowl....damn!).  I'm even thinking of switching from a TKO to a T56 Magnum after reading up on the TKO some more.

As for the 440 Mopars....agreed!  One night back in the '88 or so, my cousin and I were on the way back to his folks home (he was in high school and I was in college) in his 383 Roadrunner. We were exiting from I-40 to I-25 about 1:30 in the morning.  There was nobody on the road except for us, and a '69 Charger R/T 440.  We exited onto I-25 perfectly in line with the Charger.  My cousin goosed it...just a quick stab.  The Roadrunner lurched forward.  The Charger responded and stabbed his...it lurched much quicker and harder.  Then he punched it and left us like we were standing still.  My cousin, who was the "leader" of his little clique, and generally pretty fond of himself.....suddenly felt like a 16 year old kid that just got taught a lesson, as he should have.  I'm a huge Mopar fan as well....would love to have a '70 or '71 'Cuda.

[lovehamr]

Remember that the 390 was NOT the top of the heap for Ford fans back then, it was just the common passenger car BB.  The 427 had been around in various forms for quite some time and 428 CJ came out in 68.  Since then, the 428 has shown up in a variety of cars, none of which would be scared of a 383 and most wouldn't worry about a 440 either.  CJs still hold NHRA records.  Bottom line, these guys are feeding you some great info and if you go with a 445 built like they are saying then your Mustang will kick the snot out of everything you've talked about including your Challenger.  BTW, your Mustang can be built to run rings around your challenger on a road course as well, the after-market for those cars is staggering!  I know you're gonna have a blast with this project.

[Agar426]

Remember that the 390 was NOT the top of the heap for Ford fans back then, it was just the common passenger car BB.  The 427 had been around in various forms for quite some time and 428 CJ came out in 68.  Since then, the 428 has shown up in a variety of cars, none of which would be scared of a 383 and most wouldn't worry about a 440 either.  CJs still hold NHRA records.  Bottom line, these guys are feeding you some great info and if you go with a 445 built like they are saying then your Mustang will kick the snot out of everything you've talked about including your Challenger.  BTW, your Mustang can be built to run rings around your challenger on a road course as well, the after-market for those cars is staggering!  I know you're gonna have a blast with this project.

I totally realize that Ford had plenty going on in the performance game!  I'm just saying that it must have been a disappointment when they didn't bring their "A" game to the table.  It's as if though they were checking the box "put a big block in the mustang," but didn't consider what the competition was bringing.  I'm guessing there was also some corporate edict that wouldn't allow them to come to the table with something as potent as the Shelby's had to offer.  Then again, maybe not, as the CJ came out later in the GT.

[bn69stang]

Build your 445 , listen to all these guy s and match your parts well and you will be very happy . i currently have a 428 c j in my 69 mach with a tremec and 3.70 s and love it .. BUTT i am going to build 463 with my other 428 block and can hardly wait . good luck and keep us posted and welcome to the forum .. Bud

[Agar426]

Build your 445 , listen to all these guy s and match your parts well and you will be very happy . i currently have a 428 c j in my 69 mach with a tremec and 3.70 s and love it .. BUTT i am going to build 463 with my other 428 block and can hardly wait . good luck and keep us posted and welcome to the forum .. Bud

Agreed...this forum rocks!  Great people, great responses, and a feeling that everyone genuinely is anticipating the final product.  Gotta love it!  Thanks for the welcome!

[Agar426]

My apologies....after reading back through this thread, I referenced the MSD distributors incorrectly, regarding the MSD ready to run dizzy not having the vacuum advance. 

What I meant to say, was is the MSD pro billet with a 6a or 7 box at a disadvantage because it doesn't have a vacuum advance like the MSD ready to run has?

[Qikbbstang]

 Tremec TKO-600 replacing a C6-$...  In my mind I'm adding on all the allied goody's that realistically must be done to a chassis, suspension, axle, exhaust, brakes etc when bumping the power in a 67 Mustang and thinking "this guy just got this car".? I can see $20,000, $30,000 and even higher if things get going good. Just beefing up a 390 Mustangs axle with disc's, 31 spline axles, locker, N-case, serious springs, shocks etc and $3000 is history in no time. 

[ScotiaFE]

What I meant to say, was is the MSD pro billet with a 6a or 7 box at a disadvantage because it doesn't have a vacuum advance like the MSD ready to run has?

The advantage of the vacuum advance is part throttle cruise. Highway speed cruising.  It does net a bit more fuel economy. Now all my experience is with
carbs. With FI you will have the advantage of more fuel control.
The MSD Pro Billet works perfect with a Dig 6 box on the street. That's with a big Double Pumper and cam so it really was not a mileage maker.

[My427stang]

Tremec TKO-600 replacing a C6-$...  In my mind I'm adding on all the allied goody's that realistically must be done to a chassis, suspension, axle, exhaust, brakes etc when bumping the power in a 67 Mustang and thinking "this guy just got this car".? I can see $20,000, $30,000 and even higher if things get going good. Just beefing up a 390 Mustangs axle with disc's, 31 spline axles, locker, N-case, serious springs, shocks etc and $3000 is history in no time.

Same game we all play BB, got to eat the elephant one bite at a time...

[Mike Caruso]

Agree the 66-69 GT390 did not set the world on fire.
Worked with three guys all 67's Fairlane's one C6 others wide ratio 2.78 first with 3.25 gear and 24" tires this was in 1967. The C6 car got the Ford 515" hyd cam, headers, Shelby intake 780 Holley, 4.11 gear ran much better. One 4 sp car got just a simple cam change. New car only 5,000 miles on it never pulled the heads or changed valve spring just installed a new Ford 427 cam C3AZ-AA 306/500" solid, lifters, push-rods and rockers from a 427 with oil restricters. Great idle and power brakes worked fine. It now could pull a few car lengths on our friends 68 440 Charger. Second 4 sp car got the works a new C4AE-B 324/.500" solid, lifters, push-rods and rockers from a 427 with oil restricters. 401HP Tri-power setup off my 62 which BTW was a single plane manifold not a dual plane like all the others I have seen, Hooker big tube headers 4.33 gear. Killer just needed tires. Lots of fun.
If I lived @ 7,000 ft I would bring my own air by adding a Procharger and aftercooler. Tune it adding EFI build a big exhaust and fuel system. then while getting the bugs out have Barry build an engine for so all you have to do is drop it in and re-tune the EFI.

Almost forgot buy yourself some Mallory points they make a std. set to fit the stock dist and will run to 5500 rpm+ and if you buy the same part number but add X the points will go 6500+ no problem. That is something you can do on the weekend.

[Ratbird]

Hi all, this looks like an awesome forum for me. I currently belong to one called "www.Squarebirds.org". I have a 59 squarebird, but it's become more of an FE thing. I put a motor from a 67 LTD and toploader from a 69 Torino in her. This is my first hobby car and I'm having a blast. 

I stumbled across this forum after reading Agar426, "Engine advice for a Mustang" and saw that you are obviously from the same area. I live in WR and work up at TA55. I just had a motor built for my 59 Ratbird (Thunderbird). I had Anderson's in Albuq put a 428 crank in my 390. They took the C4ae heads and put in stainless CJ exhaust valves, a Lunati CJ cam, and comp springs. I had a Edelbrock RPM Performer and 750 carb installed. I have headers from FPA. And lastly I put a centerforce dual friction clutch in it. It has a 4sp close ratio toploader and 3.89 rearend. The rearend is open so it's a one wheel spinner. Hopefully I can get a new pumpkin and put in a limited slip soon.

It was supposed to be a car for a retirement project one day, but I couldn't wait and have been having a blast with it. I'm breaking in the clutch and motor right now and still need to put another 300-400 miles on it. So if you see a faded beat up 59 T-bird with teeth painted on the side you'll know it's me.

Thought I would touch base, I'm not a mechanic either but I'm learning tons and figure I say hi to a kindred spirit.

regards, David M Jones.

If anyone wants to see a bunch of pix of my project here is a link to my online photo album.
https://picasaweb.google.com/101492851059660555641/StreetRatProject?authkey=Gv1sRgCJSKjNbR6eunsgE

[jayb]

Welcome to the forum David, sounds like a great project.  I've got a squarebird myself, a 1960 that my grandfather bought brand new.  Kind of a family heirloom now, and I really don't want to modify it, but sometimes I get the itch to pop in a stroker motor 

[Ratbird]

Thx Jay, Wow, I really like that 64 Galaxie. There's a local guy advertising one with a 289, 3 on the tree. If I had more time I think I'd buy it. I love a three pedal car, and finding a Z-bar and clutch pedal setup for my T-bird project was the toughest part!

I sent "agar426" an e-mail last night and it turns out I know him from work! Small world indeed. Especially considering I've corresponded with Squarebird guys from Sweden, the UK, and even New Zealand. I took pictures of a T-bird that was for sell in Santa Fe, NM for the guy in New Zealand, he was thinking about buying it. The FE people seem to be a great bunch of folks.

I just put a rebuilt motor in my Rat rod sort of project. It's a 390 with a 428 crank which basically makes it a 410 Mercury. It's bored .030 over so its actually a 416. A 428 is really a 426.5 so my motor is only 10.5 cubes smaller. The builder is an old Ford guy and knows FE's through and through. He refurbished my C4AE-g heads with stainless CJ exhaust valves, comp springs, shims. 410 pistons, the correct rods, and a Lunati CJ cam. I also bought an Edelbrock RPM Performer and Edelbrock manually choke 750 carb on Craigslist. I went with a Centerforce dual friction clutch. I already had a Petronix point set up. I wanted it to sound rowdy but the builder told me he wouldn't want to go with a super crazy cam because of out altitude - he said I would need the vacuum for my power disc brakes. (something that I never would have thought of) Albuquerque is a mile high, and up here above Santa Fe we are at 6800- 7400 feet. Anyway, I got it all back together and running so I'm breaking it in as weather permits.

Anyway, I'll be chiming in with questions here and there I'm sure. I haven't worked on cars like this since I was a high school kid some 35 years ago. Until I bought this old car I didn't even like to put gas in the dame things, yet alone work on one. Now I'm having a blast!

Are there dues or anything to this website. If nothing else I'd be glad to make a donation. Squarebird.org askes members for a $20 donation to post to it. That's nothing for the info and knowledge all you Ford guys have to offer!

regards, Dave J   

 

[Ratbird]

I just realized I repeated myself on the last post, sorry bout' that.

I also realized my avatar "gif" doesn't move. The guy on the bottom is trying to punch the other guy in the back of the head with his right hand and ends up hitting himself in the face. Reminds me of myself somehow.

Dave J

[lovehamr]

Right now it just looks like two dudes in an embrace.....................