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Engine Advice for '67 Mustang Fastback
Agar426:
Hello all! I am new to this forum, but not a new FE fanatic. What I am not, however, is a mechanic.
The car is a '67 Mustang Fastback S-Code, C6. The engine is the original block, with one rebuild on it. Don't know the specifics on the rebuild, but the PO said it has an "RV" cam. No matter....here is what I want:
1) I plan on swapping a 5-speed, Tremec TKO-600 is the plan....
2) I plan on running a rear end somewhere in the 3.70 range, but no lower than 4.10.....no higher than 3.50.
3) I want reliability, and driveability....turn the key and it starts....every time!!! NO routine!!
4) I want it to be fuel injected for both driveability and fuel economy. I realize that the EFI may cost top end performance and the increase in mileage will be minimal. But, I only get about 8 mpg right now, with that kind of economy, I may as well get some performance.
5) I am liking the idea of the 445 stroker kit
6) I am hoping that 1hp/ci should be a reasonable expectation (at sea level...I live at 7,400 ft, so I understand the difference), and still maintain some level of driveability. This is where I need your advice.
7) I am thinking Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock heads or the Survival heads, the afore mentioned 445 stroker kit. What about the cam? Should I look at a hyd roller? Are the performance benefits worth the expense? Would it improve driveability?
8 ) EFI? I am looking at the self learning TBI units, the cost of the Edelbrock MPFI kit is too high. Are there any "preferred" units out there? Atomic EFI? EZ-EFI? Etc???
9) SHould I look at a short block? If so, from where? I really like the stuff that Survival Motorsports is putting out there....do they offer short/long blocks?
Am I being unreasonable? Can an FE deliver the goods, yet be driveable? I am hoping with current techniques and technology, this is a viable option without breaking the bank. I do realize that big blocks are more expensive to build, and FE builds are no exception, if not at the higher end. I am basically looking for any advice that you can give.....
Thank you!
Barry_R:
I have some obvious bias here...but can provide some answers, and have a fair degree of experience on these too... 8)
The 445 package would be well suited to your needs. They pretty much always make 500+ lbs of torque, and normally deliver power between 475 HP and 525 HP at 650ish elevation depending on intake and heads. At your elevation you can expect less, but should still be within the intended range.
I have had some mixed luck on EFI conversions. The high end Big Stuff 3, and FAST xFI are expensive, challenging to wire, require a lot of user input, and have always worked as intended.
My experience with the self learning systems has been less enjoyable. I installed one MSD Atomic with worked nicely on the dyno - no report yet from the customer. It seemed to be a very nicely designed and structured kit. I installed a EZ-EFI with multi-port injectors in the manifold and a single 4 bbl throttle body in a stroked 428, which ran well and has been running well for a long time now. I did two installations with TWM/Inglese stack type intakes and the EZ-EFI controllers - both ran OK on the dyno, but both were undriveable in the cars and have been replaced by xFI systems so that we could manually target certain parts of the fuel mapping.
So far the MSD Atomic looks like the nicest self learning system - it also has a simple spark control function - linear curve only. FAST recently released a version 2 of the EZ-EFI that is said to address some of the shortcomings & limitations of version 1. There are others I have not had the chance to try yet - I wish they'd let me go into the mapping with a laptop to adjust the VE tables on the self learning systems - I think I could get them into a usable range pretty quickly and then let the system take over from there.
Either my heads or a set of modified Edelbrocks will reach your goals. Off the shelf Edelbrocks would meet the number at sea level but might fall short at altitude. I am out of castings right now, and it's looking like I will not have any until year end at best.
We machine and build short blocks, long blocks, and complete engines on site here at Survival. We deliver a nice part, but tend to run long on lead times. The vast majority of machining is done in house - bore/hone/deck/balance/dyno - on fairly new equipment. We do have several 390 block cores in stock. Pricing is done per quote, and is market competitive.
My427stang:
I run a streetdriven 482 SEFI Mustang with a TKO-600 and 4.11s., it's a dream to drive, and a 445 would be very close in personality. I have done nothing to it other than oil changes in YEARS
Ran it carbed with 3.70s prior to the EFI, it was real nice too, but the EFI is significantly better. The key is to think about your gear ratios and driving, then pick cam, heads, and intake to match. With a 489 I chose the .64 5th and wouldnt even consider less, even when I ran 3.70s, but a little less torque you may want to consider the .82 tranny
As far as the TB conversions, they run good, not as adjustable as the port injected units, but still very good. I like to add a bung to the intake for a second water temp bung, but other than that they do fine. Avoid Powerjection IMHO, but any of the name brands should do you fine, spend the extra money on an in tank pump and return line.
Self-learning EFI is typically not that at all, they have a limit on how far they can adjust away from the initial setup, my hunch is, as you separate from the norm (mild cam/small block/etc) you need more range. Therefore if you go wild or unusual, you probably will not be as happy as you would be with a higher end kit.
jayb:
You will have no problem meeting your performance and drivability goals with a 390 stroker setup. I would definitely say yes on the hydraulic roller cam for your application. I am also a huge fan of EFI, but have no experience with the self learning kits. I have run FAST XFI, ems-pro, and Megasquirt MS3X systems and like the Megasquirt best. If you are computer literate and understand the basics of engine operation you would have no problem tuning that system; they are not that complicated once you understand how they work. If you decide to make that jump, I'd consider a Victor intake rather than the Performer RPM because it has bungs cast into the intake that can be drilled for the injectors. If you end up with one of the self learning kits then the Performer RPM is the way to go.
When you get done you will be amazed at the performance of your car...
blykins:
A 445 would make for a nice engine package for your Mustang. Coupled with a TKO, you could practically make it a modernized torque monster that's a pleasure to drive.
A 445 rotating assembly is the most cost effective way of getting usable horsepower and torque out of your 390. There are a couple of different strokes available, but they all are the same price...so there's no use in my mind in paying the same amount for a smaller engine. With ported Edelbrock heads, I think you could meet your horsepower goal, even at your elevation.
With your Mustang, you will probably have a few bouts with "room" as far as the engine and transmission go. The TKO will require some slight massaging of the trans tunnel, along with a custom cross member and a few other goodies. The Victor FE intake with MPFI would be nice, but you would have to take a close look at how much hood clearance you have. The Performer RPM with an EZ-EFI system or an MSD system would be a good compromise for you. A 3.70 rear gear with a 445 and a TKO 600 would make for a screamer of a Mustang.
As for short and long blocks, they are available, but if you are unsure of your mechanical abilities, it may be possibly worthwhile to buy a complete running engine, that's been dyno tested and ready to drop in. The engines that I offer are complete, down to the PCV valve, thermostat, pulleys, belts, etc. It takes a lot of the guesswork out of installing an engine.
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