Author Topic: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?  (Read 19408 times)

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chris401

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Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« on: October 26, 2013, 11:00:31 PM »
I have a set of C4AE-G and C6AE-R. I where I can get a pair of C1AE-A locally. All untouched. Which of the three would you prefer for a street/strip 428?
Thanks

My427stang

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2013, 11:28:02 PM »
C4 or C1 for overall airflow.  C6 if I needed an exhaust port to match a unibody non-CJ or pickup truck header
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

cjshaker

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2013, 03:45:08 AM »
I agree with Ross. C4s have nice ports, but be careful if you put hardened seats in the exhausts. It's easy to bust through to the port and lose some valve seat seating area due to the throat being very shallow on the short side.

You can get Hookers to bolt up to an 8 bolt head in a unibody car, but you either have to heat and push the bracing back against the tower or slightly notch them. Even then they might touch if the engine moves much. I have C5 MR heads in my Mach with Hookers. I heated the bracing on the R-code towers and pushed them back flat against the tower, but still have "witness" marks from the header bolts touching. That doesn't bother me.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
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Heo

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2013, 03:51:01 AM »
Is there any difference in flow from the
C1s to the C4s? I have both and i cant see
any big difference betwen them--



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

rockhouse66

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2013, 07:11:10 AM »
So the C6-R heads have the "misaligned" exhaust ports like the C8AE-H?  So much for the R heads being "poor man's CJ".  Or am I reading this incorrectly?
Jim

chris401

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2013, 07:34:58 AM »
Its going in an F100. Not any time soon, just getting rid of any thing that wont be used. The 16 bolt pattern did look appealing for a good header seal but Ill probialy drop the money into a good set of 8 bolt pickup headers.

ScotiaFE

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2013, 07:50:08 AM »
So the C6-R heads have the "misaligned" exhaust ports like the C8AE-H?  So much for the R heads being "poor man's CJ".  Or am I reading this incorrectly?

Here are some great pictures of various exh ports.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1382824243/More+exhaust+port+location+pics.

chris401

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2013, 08:02:36 AM »
So the C6-R heads have the "misaligned" exhaust ports like the C8AE-H?  So much for the R heads being "poor man's CJ".  Or am I reading this incorrectly?
Ive never owned CJ heads but I can say that the Chicago Foundry C6AE-R heads I had were slightly off from the H, D and G exhaust port location. Learned this when I bought some truck headers and found they would only mate well (compared with the above 3) with the C6AE-R location. Ill dig up the pictures and mesurements in the next couple of weeks and post here.

jayb

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2013, 09:13:58 AM »
So the C6-R heads have the "misaligned" exhaust ports like the C8AE-H?  So much for the R heads being "poor man's CJ".  Or am I reading this incorrectly?

Despite the exhaust ports the C6AE-R heads are still worth using.  The Thunderbird engine that I used as one of the dyno mules for my book had C6AE-R heads, and they were nearly identical in flow with my stockish 428CJ heads.  They had received only minor porting work on the roof of the exhaust. The flow data is in the dyno mule chapter of the book.  I would definitely still consider them the poor man's CJ head, although the C1 and C4 heads being discussed here are probably better.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

My427stang

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2013, 10:21:20 AM »
Here is the first rule I like to say with FE heads.  ANY well ported FE head can support well over 500 hp.

However, when you get to unported stuff, the raised runner emissions/unibody/truck (C7AE-A, D2TE-AA, C8AE-H) are limited to about 400 hp.  Mostly because of crappy obstructed bowls, but also because of sma;; intake runner size for a deep breather.

Again though, port them and rock and roll, with just a mild rub and decent valves, I am getting 277 cfm at .550 out of a set of D2s, arguably some of the poorest performing iron heads out of the box.

C6AE-R is an odd one though, especially on the exhaust side, they have a raised exhaust floor AND a lowered roof, but they have the good early intake port.  In addition, they also have the ability for the CJ exhaust bolt pattern.  They are NOT like a C8/D2, they basically have a smaller port at exit, and can be opened to either an erarly/CJ or a GT/truck gasket.  Pic from the FE forum



So that makes it a very universal head, it can match any of the exhaust port locations, it can match any of the exhaust bolt patterns, and it has a decent intake port.  With porting, like any other head it responds well

So it is absolutely a poor man's CJ, but not because of some magical performance, but because once you get grinding on that exhaust port roof, drill the additional holes, put the big valves in, you now can run CJ headers, and have a basic design much like a CJ.   

Or, you could call is a Poor Man's hipo GT or  hipo truck head too, by doing the same thing, but leaving the exhaust roof low and working the floor a little and drill for GT pattern

For a truck though, be certain you know which header location you have.  I used D2s because they were a perfect match to my Hedman headers and really, knowing we would port them, it was just as easy to use a known good set of heads.   If your headers don't match, you'll be crying later because it will take some level of effort to make them seal, where the correct port is bolt and go.

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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

machoneman

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2013, 10:58:51 AM »
Maybe the C1AE's? Had a pair long ago and many think, like I did, they were about the best stock iron heads around. Still, even though the intake port size, and to a lesser degree, the shape  looked good, this means nothing in terms of true airflow. I wonder if JDC (Joe Craine) has any supporting airflow data.....would be interesting to see flow comparisons  among the unmachined FE
heads mentioned in this blog. 
Bob Maag

rockhouse66

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2013, 04:57:29 PM »
Thanks much for the C6-R lesson.  I ask because I have a rough/bare pair of these and some other parts sitting around and considered throwing them together to see what would happen.  I did this once before, with the C8AE-H heads, and realized too late that the exhaust port location limited their application and/or header alignments.  Sounds like I can massage these R heads to work well and line up better than the H heads.
Jim

wayne

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2013, 05:34:21 PM »
You may want to look at the Stan Weiss cylinder head web site

My427stang

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Re: Whats Your Iron Head Prefference?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2013, 07:47:48 PM »
Stan's site is very good, and he is a great guy too.  However all of his data is from different benches, so it's a bit hard to really compare apples to apples.

I do use it though, especially when you are looking for potential of a more common head, because he usually has a few examples of each
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

chris401

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Stan Weiss Link
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2013, 09:13:26 PM »