Author Topic: Let's talk cylinder heads  (Read 582 times)

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My427stang

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2026, 01:27:40 PM »
I like the generally tight community we have.  I want to see Brent, Blair, Mike Brunson, and me, as well as anyone else doing this crazy stuff, to be successful.  I want Trick Flow to make heads, I want options as well, and BBM, Pond, you name it, to succeed.  It'd be nice if AFR came out with one too...but there is no secret I have had success with Trick Flow and will continue to use them, usually with the work I do to them to make them a little happier.  I'd try a BBM head, but I'd have to see what it got me for the extra money.  For me, almost overnight to my door, good parts, good price, the TFS is pretty easy and effective.     

However, I have not purchased anything from Blair, so this has nothing to do with him, but since Brent mentioned it, I am 50% on BBM blocks and have used 6 total.  All 6 had issues if I want to be picky. All 6 also wandered in carried by customers, I did not buy them directly, so we just fixed them.

EDITED:  The recent one was a major drill through on the angled gallery to #5 internally, the other was external, and easily seen and sleeved, but it was a long time ago, probably an earlier block.  Every one had the NPT buried so deep I had to use a combination of oversized plugs or cut the bottom of the fitting to allow oil flow, inconsistent bearing tab locations from one to another almost random, and one with a single lifter bore in the wrong place.  Every single one of them was fixable, but took some time and thinking, and if another block comes in, I'll fix it and build it because we don't have a ton of options, but if BBM becomes the most available block, it sure would be nice if they tighten them up

In fact, there is one sitting in a crate in my pickup right now, hoping it changes the average the right direction :)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2026, 01:34:21 PM by My427stang »
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

CaptCobrajet

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2026, 04:49:15 PM »
I don’t know if I have ever used any aftermarket block, other than a Shelby, that didn’t have something that I had to correct, repair, or massage someplace.  None of the iron blocks have been perfect.  I find minor things wrong with almost all of them, including the Shelbys.  They do send some that have zero issues.  I didn’t realize pipe plug depth was to be considered.  I have had BBMs with plugs too deep, and plugs too shallow.  Also, be mindful of the chamfer on the thrust main bore.  These are things that I just consider part of the job.  We pressure test all blocks, new or used, and visually inspect everything.  We fill the block with water, and then pressurize. 

I remember years ago, Doug telling me about a block that had some core shift and drill through right where you describe.  He sent me a few pictures of it.  I don’t know what ever happened to it.  It could have made it into circulation some way I suppose. 

That iron block production is not easy for any of the folks who have done it.  We should be glad to get them, and if there is no other option, we just have to fix them, if possible, no matter the brand.  The FE resurgence has been supported over the years by Dove, Shelby, Genesis, BBM, and Pond.  Currently, for different and unrelated reasons, iron blocks are scarce.  Some will come through eventually.  For my use, I will deal with the minor issues, and if a block has no major flaws, I will use them and be glad to get them, regardless of the manufacturer.  I’ve been using the various aftermarket offerings for about 30 years now, and I guess it’s been so long since I assumed anything was okay on them, we just don’t think twice, and look at everything to start with.

Sort of in response to Mr. Lykins comments………when BBM’s inventory was running low, pre Covid, and he was going to cast more, Doug came to me about updating the ports.  I was not involved in the original creation.  I made new stuff, verified it, tested it, and then sent it to him.  Fast forward through tough times everyone had making things in the early ‘20s………we have had the new castings for about 2-1/2 years.  He wanted to improve performance.  He already had great casting quality, so here we are.  We didn’t originally plan for me to distribute the heads, but we were already doing the finish work, so it just evolved into that.

This is a free country.  We can all use whatever we want to, or work with whatever the customer brings.  Sometimes folks just don’t know what they don’t know.  I see what I would call inaccurate information posted from time to time. Sometimes I post my thoughts.  Most times I read and move on.

Blair Patrick

cjshaker

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2026, 10:00:45 PM »

Here's one thing that everyone should appreciate about me: I'm not brand loyal. 
As for how the new [BBM] heads perform, I'm good with not knowing.


Umm, surely you can see the flaw in those 2 statements? Being an engine builder, you're good with not knowing?

As far as the "proof", every major engine builder readily admits that dyno numbers are for bragging rights, and running on a dyno is for tuning and verifying that everything is okay with a build. The only "proof" is on a track. On the street, it doesn't really matter much. 500hp will kill you just as quick as 550hp. In fact, on the street, the more HP you're pushing, the faster you will get yourself into bad trouble if you don't handle it correctly, which means you'll never be using the full potential of 550hp, especially on street tires.

So for "proof", here's your chance, Brent. List up those class wins with your FE engines. Any EMC? Drag Week? SS and/or S class wins? I mean, besides your 15th place in the camshaft challenge? Don't be shy.

As for the OP, my stock stroke 427 uses untouched MR heads, has more HP than I can put down on the street (497) and runs me right at 11.50 on the strip, with a less than optimized set-up. That's right at the limit of requiring a rollbar. Pretty much any modern FE head will make a very nice hot street/strip combo right out of the box. I wouldn't overthink it too much, unless you want the numbers for bragging rights, or you don't mind making your car more "strip" than "street", to take advantage of that power. There's a big tradeoff when you do that.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

blykins

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #18 on: Today at 04:34:44 AM »
I actually placed in the top 5 in the last cam challenge.  Ahead of one of the previous winners and a few cam lobe designers.  Thanks for the mention!

Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
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My427stang

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #19 on: Today at 07:21:48 AM »
That iron block production is not easy for any of the folks who have done it.  We should be glad to get them, and if there is no other option, we just have to fix them, if possible, no matter the brand.  The FE resurgence has been supported over the years by Dove, Shelby, Genesis, BBM, and Pond.  Currently, for different and unrelated reasons, iron blocks are scarce.  Some will come through eventually.  For my use, I will deal with the minor issues, and if a block has no major flaws, I will use them and be glad to get them, regardless of the manufacturer.  I’ve been using the various aftermarket offerings for about 30 years now, and I guess it’s been so long since I assumed anything was okay on them, we just don’t think twice, and look at everything to start with.

Blair, this entire statement is true.  Suppliers drop and the engine family is getting older every day.  The same applies to us and the customer too, and someone pays the hourly rate to fix the block whether it's builder labor or customer eats it.  In my case, I inform them and eat it unless something big, even when the customer supplies the block.  It's just quicker and easier that way. Like anyone, I would like to minimize working for free though.

In the end, I know the FE is far more difficult to cast, and I appreciate they take on a small business venture that will be very unlikely to make them rich.  There are no "buts" after that.

Here, we start with pressure testing water, then scoping oil galleys and probing with a long pick, and when suspicious, reversing mains, blocking decks, and rubber freeze plugs to do the same for oil at low pressure...although I think I may start doing that at initial inspection, then check main shell alignment and then I mag.  I am aware of the thrust bevel, I have only seen one, and on the cap, so an easy fix, but I watch now.  The deep NPTs are a pain, some go quick, some take a lot of experimentation for an easy thing, all this I have started to do before we scope it in the CnC. 

I may be expecting too much, but I think some of those could be production checks.   I do appreciate the blocks, same with Pond's, but things like the deep NPT (I'd cheer for a shallow, especially ends of the side oiler gallery), the thrust, the bearing tabs, cap numbering, etc, but I think these are under his control of production, and I hope asking for it is within customer feedback.

I'll also add I have a 445 in the works I haven't bought heads or pistons for yet, the others are too far down the road.  I will say that I follow a mantra from my days in the air.  "Plan the flight, fly the plan" with a customer, TFS is easy because I know what they do and can do, and I nail it in an estimate.  Happy to talk offline.

Doug - Brent builds good engines, Blair builds good engines, both at higher quantities than me.  I hope all of us builders, suppliers and racers stay friendly with each other, as these engines will likely be out of style in our lifetime. 

To me, TFS came out with big guns for the street, nailed it, had some supplier hiccups, then got right back on the horse. Sounds like with Blair's help, BBM did the same and likely more options for deep breathers.  I am good with that, but in the 500-700 HP street FE world, TFS has been making it easy.  Doesn't mean I hate brunettes because I am with a blonde :)  but the blonde is easy and pretty LOL
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

frnkeore

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #20 on: Today at 10:42:28 AM »
If you can't think out of the box, you'll never get out of it and see the light of day!
Frank

'60 Ford Starliner
'61 Fairlane 500
Austin Healey Replica with 427 & 8.5 Cert

blykins

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #21 on: Today at 11:04:23 AM »
If you can't think out of the box, you'll never get out of it and see the light of day!

Don't you have Trick Flow heads?
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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frnkeore

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #22 on: Today at 11:38:14 AM »
Those are my so/so heads.

My good heads are Jay's TP heads, with Blair help!
Frank

'60 Ford Starliner
'61 Fairlane 500
Austin Healey Replica with 427 & 8.5 Cert

blykins

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #23 on: Today at 11:40:57 AM »
Those are my so/so heads.

My good heads are Jay's TP heads, with Blair help!

Why didn't you buy BBM?
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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frnkeore

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #24 on: Today at 12:00:03 PM »
Simply because I've wanted a set of TP's since they first came out in '67 and because, I think the TP can be made to flow the most of any FE head, sort of Jay's offset rocker heads.

On Stan W's web site, there is ported original that flows 383 cfm @ .600 another flows 342 @ .700 and I'm sure Jay's can be made to do 400 cfm @ .700, maybe more.
Frank

'60 Ford Starliner
'61 Fairlane 500
Austin Healey Replica with 427 & 8.5 Cert

blykins

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #25 on: Today at 12:06:50 PM »
Simply because I've wanted a set of TP's since they first came out in '67 and because, I think the TP can be made to flow the most of any FE head, sort of Jay's offset rocker heads.

On Stan W's web site, there is ported original that flows 383 cfm @ .600 another flows 342 @ .700 and I'm sure Jay's can be made to do 400 cfm @ .700, maybe more.

Agree with you there, but I meant buying BBM instead of TFS.  Joe did a set of Jays TP heads that went about 425.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:14:21 PM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

frnkeore

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #26 on: Today at 01:04:38 PM »
I only bought them because I didn’t know about Blair’s BBM heads at the time.
Frank

'60 Ford Starliner
'61 Fairlane 500
Austin Healey Replica with 427 & 8.5 Cert

My427stang

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #27 on: Today at 01:47:07 PM »
They'll sell
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

frnkeore

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #28 on: Today at 01:53:36 PM »
Another reason that I would have done the BBM's, is that you'll remember all the talk about the TFS backing up at above .600 lift and getting noising. JDC verified that.

I'm sure the BBM will not back up.
Frank

'60 Ford Starliner
'61 Fairlane 500
Austin Healey Replica with 427 & 8.5 Cert

blykins

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Re: Let's talk cylinder heads
« Reply #29 on: Today at 02:05:29 PM »
Another reason that I would have done the BBM's, is that you'll remember all the talk about the TFS backing up at above .600 lift and getting noising. JDC verified that.

I'm sure the BBM will not back up.

How much are a pair of "Trick Flow comparable" BBM heads and how much power do you think they'd make on top of the TFS head in a typical 445-462ci street engine, like the OP has?

Edited for spelling.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:08:47 PM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports