Author Topic: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes  (Read 853 times)

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hbstang

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3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« on: May 14, 2026, 10:50:44 AM »
can someone tell me the cost in one vs the other? what about quality of castings,as well as how the surface texture comes out?
kelly,i know you are doing the lost foam so your castings look great.

kcoffield

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2026, 11:25:35 AM »
can someone tell me the cost in one vs the other? what about quality of castings,as well as how the surface texture comes out? kelly,i know you are doing the lost foam so your castings look great.

Initially, the sand printed molds were pretty coarse because of print layer thickness. I understand some will allow you to specify finer print layers for a price. Prices have come down with more available sources now. You basically pay one time processing and foundry fees and then pay by the cubic inch of mold volume.

Assuming you have a decent CAD model, it should be fairly easy to get a quote.

I lost foam cast because I can control all processes and do so completely under the roof of my modest shop. I do detail the foam patterns for better finish and appearance. I'd say my finish is better than then the average printed mold and casting quality on par with other sand casting processes since I use virgin ingot and have developed my molten metal management processes over the years, but it's taken effort on the latter, whereas it should be second nature to an established foundry.

Being retired and casting as a hobby endeavor, I'm fairly selective about what I take on, mainly within the Ford and Inline carb realm, but freely recommend 3D sand printing to those inquiries that I pass on.

Being YouTube discoverable, I get a lot of people that come to me with nothing more than an idea for a particular engine combination. That's basically a little more than a hand full of smoke because all the dimensional interface, reverse engineering, modeling, and programming are the majority of the work required before a casting is born......then there is the finish machining....


Best,
Kelly



 

FrozenMerc

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2026, 11:49:56 AM »
I had a couple of MEL to 6-71 blower intakes cast last year.  We used 3D printed sand molds.  I can't give you a price comparison to lost foam as I was unable to get a viable quote for that process.

I am happy with the surface finish.  See the Images of the raw casting and then machined casting below.  If someone was so enthused, it would polish up just fine. 

I made sure there was plenty of extra material (at least a 1/4" in most cases) on the surfaces that would be machined as I was not confident in the foundry's ability to hold dimensional tolerances, so I made sure there was plenty of material to clean up in case it came out of the mold a bit wonky or warped.  That did not happen, the dimensional stability was excellent, so credit to the mold designer.  The mold also flowed well, as I did not uncover any areas with porosity during machining.







Fit up on my crusty 430 core.



« Last Edit: May 14, 2026, 11:52:28 AM by FrozenMerc »

jayb

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2026, 02:13:25 PM »
3D printed sand runs about $0.12 per cubic inch.  You have to take the model and draw cube around it, then calculate the volume of that cube to get an idea of the cost of the sand.  Most of the time it gets to be pretty expensive because you have to allow room outside the part for the sprue (where the aluminum is poured), the runners (that feed aluminum into the part), and the vents and risers.  Including the cope and the drag, a casting that was 1 cubic foot would probably require about 8 cubic feet of sand.

What I was doing to minimize costs was to tool the cope and the drag for normal foundry sand, and just 3D print the sand that defined the key parameters of the part.  This was costly up front because they don't give away the tooling.  But in the prior example, instead of paying for 9 cubic feet of 3D printed sand, you would only had to pay for 1 cubic foot.  1 cubic foot of sand is only a couple hundred bucks; 9 cubic feet is about $1860.  Tooling the cope and drag would be a lot cheaper than doing 10 castings, all with 3D printed sand.

On the other hand, if you are only doing one or two parts, using 3D printed sand for everything certainly makes sense.  It would still be an expensive part just based on the sand cost, but then you would be the only one who had one ;-)
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

feadam

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2026, 04:52:11 PM »
Just wondering if you have a part you want to do a one off say an fe intake could you take it to a 3d print company and have it copied, a company that does metal

hbstang

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2026, 05:00:44 PM »
you would need  a digital 3d model that can used by the foundry to print the sand.as jay explained to cost of 1 printed mold ready  to pour is not cheap.8 cubic foot sand print would be 1658.at least i think.check with experts here.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2026, 10:25:35 AM by hbstang »

feadam

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2026, 07:52:19 PM »
What kind of price would one intake cost to get copied

hbstang

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2026, 10:35:12 AM »
"What I was doing to minimize costs was to tool the cope and the drag for normal foundry sand, and just 3D print the sand that defined the key parameters of the part.  This was costly up front because they don't give away the tooling.  But in the prior example, instead of paying for 9 cubic feet of 3D printed sand, you would only had to pay for 1 cubic foot.  1 cubic foot of sand is only a couple hundred bucks; 9 cubic feet is about $1860.  Tooling the cope and drag would be a lot cheaper than doing 10 castings, all with 3D printed sand."

jay for all us who dont know any of this can you show pictures of this tooling you are talking about?
dont know what the cope and drag are,and all other stuff?

jayb

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2026, 12:21:10 PM »
What kind of price would one intake cost to get copied

You can't just copy a casting.  For one thing, the castings shrink after they are poured, so if you were trying to copy a simple casting like a valve cover by just using it to form the sand on both sides, the casting would come out too small; the aluminum shrinks as it cools.

If you were determined to do it, you would need a 3D model of the intake.  For about $5K you could get the intake X-ray scanned and get a model with all the correct aluminum thicknesses, water jacket locations, etc.  Then you would have to size it up by some percentage to account for the aluminum shrinkage.  Then you would have to give it to a pattern shop to make the tooling that the foundry uses to build the sand molds, or you could have the sand 3D printed for a few thousand bucks.  But you would also have to have a design for the aluminum to flow through the gating into the mold, through the part and into the risers, with vents in the proper areas.  This is not a trivial engineering task in most cases; it took me about 10 castings to get the gating, risers and vents working properly for my cylinder heads, and I had some expert help in that area.

Then, of course, the casting has to be machined.  So you would need some sort of fixture to hold the casting in place while the cylinder head side was machined flat, carb pads machined flat, bolt holes in the correct location, etc.  Somebody with a Bridgeport and a lot of time can probably do this, but unless you are doing it yourself, you may have trouble finding someone willing to put the time and effort into this.

None of this is trivial, which is why you don't see a lot of folks casting complex parts.  Kelly has a great setup and process for doing one-off castings, but he will tell you that most of the work is in the design; a 3D model of the part you want cast is pretty much a required starting point.

Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2026, 12:23:36 PM »

jay for all us who dont know any of this can you show pictures of this tooling you are talking about?
dont know what the cope and drag are,and all other stuff?

The drag is the bottom of the mold in sand, and the cope is the top of the mold in sand.  The drag usually contains the gating to direct metal into the mold, and the cope usually has the risers, vents, and sprue(s).  You can find a lot more details online...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

FrozenMerc

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2026, 12:37:08 PM »
jay for all us who dont know any of this can you show pictures of this tooling you are talking about?
dont know what the cope and drag are,and all other stuff?

Here are a few images of the MEL Intake 3D printed molds.  The first is one of the cores that form the internal negative space.  Air tract in this case.  There was another core for the water tract.  The 2nd is the cores mounted into the drag portion of the mold.  The Cope would be the top half that covers this up.  You can see some of the core supports and flow channels for the aluminum.  The final image is of the assembled mold, right after pouring.








FrozenMerc

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2026, 12:58:25 PM »
Just wondering if you have a part you want to do a one off say an fe intake could you take it to a 3d print company and have it copied, a company that does metal

What kind of price would one intake cost to get copied

The problem you run into with FE and MEL intakes is platform size.  Most 3D printing machines (especially metal) don't have a large enough platform to produce a FE intake.  I had a plastic model of my MEL intake made up first so I could check fit, flow, etc before committing to tooling up the mold.  Even plastic 3D printers (which are nearly as common as refrigerators these days), don't typically have a large enough platform to handle a Ford V8 intake.  It was actually cheaper ($1200 still) to CNC machine the MEL intake out of blocks of nylon and glue them together, then to 3D print it as one piece.  See image below of the plastic intake.

Cost is very subjective.  I am an engineer by trade, and have a Unigraphics (NX) license at home.  That alone costs me nearly $2K a year.  There are cheaper CAD programs out there, but there are significant advantages to a proper industry standard CAD program such as UG NX, Solidworks, PTC/Creo, etc. Most contract engineers will charge you $150 to $250 per hour to scan and generate FUNCTIONAL 3D models (raw casting, final machined part, and engineering drawings). I would expect 5 to 10 billable hours by time that is done. 

3D printed mold for a single intake is going to run you $1500, give or take a few hundred.  The first one is generally much more expensive as you will also have to pay for the mold design and flow modeling.  After that, it is just printer time. 

Jay pretty well layed out the foundry costs.

Then you have final machining.  Could be any where from a few hundred bucks to another $3K depending on time, fixtures needed, etc. 

Add in a few shipping charges and other misc expenses, and $10K is not unreasonable if you pay others to do all the work.





« Last Edit: May 21, 2026, 09:16:15 AM by FrozenMerc »

feadam

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2026, 03:57:11 PM »
Thanks that’s what I was looking for

hbstang

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Re: 3d sand printing vs lost foam casting aluminum intakes
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2026, 06:52:30 PM »
yes,thank you to those who replied.i learn somtheing every almost every time i ask here.