Author Topic: Grooved vs non-grooved cam journals 2 and 4 ?  (Read 1723 times)

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MeanGene

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Re: Grooved vs non-grooved cam journals 2 and 4 ?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2025, 10:10:04 PM »
Bill, I don't think I've ever heard a reason or explanation of why the grooves weren't machined on those blocks, when so many had been done that way, and continued to be in other blocks? Is there a reason to make such a change that required special bearings and grooved cams? I'm wondering why not cut the grooves while it's apart and then just use normal cam bearings and not have to deal with it again? Must have been a good reason for the change?

WConley

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Re: Grooved vs non-grooved cam journals 2 and 4 ?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2025, 11:47:15 PM »
Re:  Why don't sideoilers have grooves machined in the #2 and #4 cam journals?

I wish I knew!  I wonder if it has to do with the top oiler (and standard FE) needing a 180 degree oil transfer around the cam bearing, and the sideoiler needing only a 135 degree oil transfer.  Maybe there was a tooling issue with cutting a 135 degree groove in the block?  Wild guess!

Another thing came to mind.  It seems the sideoilers were machined on a special line with dedicated tooling to better control cylinder wall thickness.  Perhaps the oil transfer groove tooling was expensive and not justifiable for such a low volume of blocks.  That would make even more sense given what I saw inside Ford.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2025, 12:01:25 AM by WConley »
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66gtafairlane

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Re: Grooved vs non-grooved cam journals 2 and 4 ?
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2025, 02:25:41 AM »
Thanks - this clears it out. Are the 427 SO blocks the only FE blocks not to have the grooves in the cam tunnel journals in the block ?

And presumable 427 SO blocks have 2 oil holes in the cam bearings / saddles in the block for valvetrain lubrication? Only 2 & 4 ?
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frnkeore

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Re: Grooved vs non-grooved cam journals 2 and 4 ?
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2025, 03:41:25 AM »
It's very much more complicated than cross-sectional area.  For instance, tribology (the science of lubrication) treats rotating journal bearings as pumps.  Peak pressures can reach thousands of psi at high speeds and loads.  Look up the Reynolds Equation.  What would the flow through the bearing be under those insane pressures?  Clearances around the bearing vary a great deal with load, as does pressure.  There are lots of SAE papers on journal bearing lubrication if you really want to go nuts.

Loads on the rods and mains can be measured in tons at higher rpm and throttle positions.  To convince yourself, do a napkin calculation of how much oil film pressure you need to support even one ton of force on a rod journal.  You'll find it's at least an order of magnitude higher than anything the pump can put out.
That's a good point, that the crank acts like a centrifugal pump and NPSHa (Net Positive Suction Head available) would also apply. Insufficient NPSHa can create a vacuum and/or cavitation, aerating the oil (in the case of a engine, threw the bearing and lifter clearance, above the crank) and one reason that inlets are always larger than output ports on most pumps.

Also, in a engine, if the crank is pulling oil at a higher rate than a pump can supply, the oil pressure should go down.

Anyway, no one has to modify their blocks, like I do but, it makes since to me and those are the reasons I do it.

Frank

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blykins

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Re: Grooved vs non-grooved cam journals 2 and 4 ?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2025, 05:22:13 AM »
Thanks - this clears it out. Are the 427 SO blocks the only FE blocks not to have the grooves in the cam tunnel journals in the block ?

And presumable 427 SO blocks have 2 oil holes in the cam bearings / saddles in the block for valvetrain lubrication? Only 2 & 4 ?

S/O and aftermarket blocks have two holes in the cam bearings that feed oil to the heads/rockers. 
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pbf777

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Re: Grooved vs non-grooved cam journals 2 and 4 ?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2025, 11:50:28 AM »
I don't think I've ever heard a reason or explanation of why the grooves weren't machined on those blocks, when so many had been done that way, and continued to be in other blocks? Is there a reason to make such a change that required special bearings and grooved cams? I'm wondering why not cut the grooves while it's apart and then just use normal cam bearings and not have to deal with it again? Must have been a good reason for the change?


      I think if you realize that the 427 Side-Oiler was actually retrograde engineering adopted from the Y-Block, which is where the FE matured from in the first place and that the transition to the Center-Oiler from the Y-Block oiling system was a cost-cutting decision in that process, which worked fine until the next decade when the engine speeds and loads exposed its' sort comings.   :)

      Sort of a case of pre-computer age engineering practice of "cut & paste"!  O.K. with some mods to adapt it the FE and of course the guys didn't want to present the appearance of a total plagiaristic effort!   ::)
 
      Scott.

      P.S.  Oh, and also: one should always at least try to be nice!   :)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2025, 11:59:24 AM by pbf777 »

MeanGene

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Re: Grooved vs non-grooved cam journals 2 and 4 ?
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2025, 02:26:08 PM »
Actually the "side-oiler" technology dates back at least to the late '30's