cross bolt conversion cost

[pbf777]

        Non-skirted blocks lend themselves better to "bed-plate" conversions; and there have been a few made for the Small & Big Block Chevies over the years and even for the Small Block Ford.

        Unfortunately most "conversion" executions aren't able to provide to the level that an original intention execution can, as most often the location and fastening to the block pan rails of the converted blocks tends to suffer.  One also would want to utilize like materials (can't say for sure if the FE photo is of aluminum?) and avoid those long fasteners as presented in the FE conversion, as these begin to act with excessive elasticity vs. a shorter fastener; again part of the problem with conversion efforts.   

        Scott.

       

[Mr Woodys Garage]

There Are Many Ways To Skin A Cat...Since You Are Using A Decent Block To Begin With, Why Not Do It In A Proven Way? Yes, One Of These Girdles Is A Bunch Of Work, But It Was Proven To Hold 761 HP On A Factory "S" Scratch 428 Block. (Yes, We Converted It To Screw In Core Plugs As Well, Just A Bit Stiffer, And Cooler, Than Brass) Not Everyone Has The Luxury Of Having A Factory Cast 428 Block Like Mine Was Either, And, While We Could Have Used A Set Of Aftermarket Caps, I Decided To Go The Extra Mile And Go With A Girdle. The Results Spoke For Themselves. Your  Block Will Thank You For It, Your Machinist, Will Likely Come Up With A Dozen Reasons As To Why, "It Cant Be Done"... Every Bit As Important, Is The Precision Balancing Of The Rotating Assembly. You Will See In The Photo That We Did A "No Holes Balance" On My Build, Which Had Many Benefits As Well. As I Said, There Are Many Ways To Skin A Cat, But You Only Get To Do So Once, Be Sure And Do It Right.

[Dr Mabuse]

This 4.0 litre V8 BMW design is purdy (444 bhp @ 7,500 rpm / M3 GTR race car):

[GerryP]

And then, there is the air cooled VW or the Porsche flat six.  Bedplates are also common on diesel engines like the earlier Ford Power Stroke.

[pbf777]

     "Bed Plate" engineering actually derived from antique stationary engines before they became transportable (this long before the automobile was invented  ) and they were huge monstrosities where a 10" bore would not have been considered large at all, and they were built-up in place starting with the foundation or "bed-plate" where the crankshaft was laid and then everything else was of pieces & parts assembled over it.   

      More recently, this engineering is still known in large stationary engines and the large marine diesel and steam engines.  See: https://marineprogress.com/marine-engine-bed-plate/

      Scott.

[WConley]

Interesting Scott!  I did not know this 

[WConley]

And now for something completely different!  This isn't really a bed plate.  It's more of a die cast aluminum "cocoon" that ties into those long spindly main caps.  This is the Ford 2.7L Ecoboost out of the F-150 and Bronco.  Strange!!

[e philpott]

A local machine shop/hardware store took one of those early 4.1 V8 Cadilac engines apart in mid late 80's and took that bolt-in Valley saddle (or whatever you call it) in the lifter valley and that block moved several inches as soon as the last bolt was removed and popped the valley saddle out of the block, regardless of trying they never could get the block square enough to get that valley saddle back in and the block back together

[pbf777]

And now for something completely different!

    Oh no!  Don't look!  You'll just suffer from nightmares, if you try to follow along with the logic of this engineering and the explanation for it's acceptance!   

    But, leave it to the "Promotional Dept". to try and make everyone want one!   

    Yep, you said it: 

  Strange!!

    Scott.

[c9zx]

 The Ford 2.7 is a bit of an odd duck. I hope the "unconventional" design proves to be durable. I have one in a 2020 Edge ST. So far so good at 40K miles. Chuck (S)

[mygasser]

There Are Many Ways To Skin A Cat...Since You Are Using A Decent Block To Begin With, Why Not Do It In A Proven Way? Yes, One Of These Girdles Is A Bunch Of Work, But It Was Proven To Hold 761 HP On A Factory "S" Scratch 428 Block. (Yes, We Converted It To Screw In Core Plugs As Well, Just A Bit Stiffer, And Cooler, Than Brass) Not Everyone Has The Luxury Of Having A Factory Cast 428 Block Like Mine Was Either, And, We Could Have Used A Set Of Aftermarkey Caps, But I Decided To Go The Extra Mile And Go With The Girdle. The Results Spoke For Themselves. Your  Block Will Thank You For It, Your Machinist, Will Likely Come Up With A Dozen Reasons As To Why, "It Cant Be Done"... Every Bit As Important, Is The Precision Balancing Of The Rotating Assembly. You Will See In The Photo That We Did A "No Holes Balance" On My Build, Which Had Many Benefits As Well. As I Said, There Are Many Ways To Skin A Cat, But You Only Get To Do So Once, Be Sure And Do It Right.

would there be any benefit to dowelling the girdle to the pan rail at several points around it?
neil.

[pbf777]

     

would there be any benefit to dowelling the girdle to the pan rail at several points around it?

      The entire challenge is the attempt to make whatever it might be that your trying to incorporate into the original structure "to be as one" with it.  The problem becomes with the physical invasion into the original structure not engineered for such and the redirecting of stress loads to areas not intended for such, in the attempt to accomplish this; so in reality this effort often results in only weakening it. And then often the add-on structure still isn't sufficiently integrated anyway; as here for example, do you really think that the fastening intended for the retention of the oil pan are truly sufficient in their new responsibility of trying to arrest movement that has overcome other more significant engineering?   

      So the next thought might be: Where were you planning to remove metal from the block in the effort to make it stronger?   

      Scott.

[fekbmax]

I pinned the girdle on my 445fe. Just two pins on each side. More so to keep it located.  Maybe it was for shits and giggles but it made me feel better about it. Also did the program cross bolt caps as well and also the 1 and 5 billet caps. It's the only FE I have pinned the girdle on. The other 4 (2 mud bog FE's and 2 bracket FE's) were not pinned. Both mud bog engines are still alive and well although I have freshend both up . Can't say about the bracket engines,  lost touch with those over the years.
As mentioned, To properly install the girdle does require some work. On the 445 I squared every surface off the crankshaft center line. Even the front and rear. You would be suprised just how outa square some of these old iron blocks are. I elected to do a line bore after getting the caps installed like I wanted and filling the block then square the pan rails for the girdle.  Once the girdle was installed a touch up line hone was done.
Was this the perfect way to do it ? FM, I don't know but I felt warm and fuzzy about it. 154 1/8 mile passes and 16 1/4 mile passes.  Best et of 5.41 (1/8) . 
I will say I did rod bearings once but never touched the mains.  Engine is out now setting in the corner ready for a winter tear down if I can manage to get to it. All my stuff has been in a holding pattern  for the past 9 months. Should be getting back after it soon though.  Atleast hoping. Life throws some strange shit at you sometimes. It's all about perseverance...

[MeanGene]

It can be amazing how far out of square the pan rail can be with the main caps. Took a bit of a cutting get it squared up to begin fitting the girdle, And I also cut about .030 off the girdle where it matches up with the front cover, as the cover hangs down below the newly trimmed pan rail. I just filled the gap with RTV so the front cover could float and center itself off the seal- worked out well. And when you think about it, there are about 20 of those 5/16 pan mounting holes, and the good girdle kit comes with studs and nuts, so it is tied together pretty well if it's installed with care- and if you also used a windage tray, that's another layer of shear. Ask one of your carpenter buddies about the capabilities of "shear"

[MeanGene]

Forgot I had a couple pics