Author Topic: full spool  (Read 1714 times)

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fryedaddy

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full spool
« on: March 11, 2024, 01:00:48 PM »
i just put a full spool in my 9 inch rear.it binds and pops a little when you turn sharp.is this normal or do i need some better universals or something?
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

Tunnelwedge

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Re: full spool
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2024, 01:45:47 PM »
That sounds about what they do.
Get the best u joint straps you can.
I busted the straps a number of years ago daily driving a spool.
 

mike7570

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Re: full spool
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2024, 02:24:48 PM »
i just put a full spool in my 9 inch rear.it binds and pops a little when you turn sharp.is this normal or do i need some better universals or something?
Put skinny tires with lots of air pressure on the rears and it will turn easier, put large drag slicks on and it will feel like you stabbed the brakes during a turn. Lol  Be careful on wet surfaces!

pbf777

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Re: full spool
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2024, 03:26:18 PM »
i just put a full spool in my 9 inch rear.it binds and pops a little when you turn sharp.is this normal or do i need some better universals or something?

    Most often with the wheels locked together, as they are with an unforgiving spool (but often also experienced with the application of a Detroit-Locker), when turning the vehicle left or right the axle housing experiences a sum of twist or rap-up due to the tires traction fighting one another in the different pathways resulting (twisting in which ever direction the tire with the most traction imparts to the housing) until the spring resistance overpowers the tire traction and then the torque load is released with a snap and often a slap of the spring leaves (or other suspension components or even body work being distorted) which is often the noise one hears.    :o

    It's just the nature of the beast!   ::)

    Scott.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2024, 03:31:55 PM by pbf777 »

fryedaddy

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Re: full spool
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2024, 03:31:25 PM »
so it is normal to hear some noise while turning sharp? when going straight it seems to ride better and stays very straight when you go faster.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

cjshaker

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Re: full spool
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2024, 03:31:38 PM »
Invest in the best 1350 joints and billet caps that you can get. With a spool, especially on the street, the stresses placed on those pieces, as well as axles and wheel studs, cannot be overstated.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
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Rory428

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Re: full spool
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2024, 04:54:40 PM »
A spool if great at the dragstrip, but no way would I ever want one on a street car.  I have 3 9" 3rd members for my 59, the "normal" one is a N case with 3.50 gears and a 31 spline Detroit Locker, the dragstrip one is a 4.33 spool, and even driving the 1/2 hour to my local dragstrip, with the spool, I hate it when I have to go around a corner. Great way to find any weak links in your rearend, however! Also good for attracting cops and attention, when the tires are chirping and dragging around corners or in a parking lot.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

machoneman

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Re: full spool
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2024, 05:07:17 PM »
so it is normal to hear some noise while turning sharp? when going straight it seems to ride better and stays very straight when you go faster.

Yes, as others here noted, it is normal. Long ago (!) we had to jimmy our '69 all drag racer off trailer and make a 90 degree turn into the garage we rented. This in a narrow Chicago alley. Yikes, if we got back from the races late (engine noise) or the car broke, we had to push that 3,200 lb. car into that tight turn. Took a real effort too. Had we swapped out the 11.5" wide slicks to a really narrow street tire, it would have been a lot easier.   
Bob Maag

pbf777

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Re: full spool
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2024, 05:59:38 PM »
     In order to "get a long" with a locked rear, it will be concluded that if one "drives" (vs. coasting) through the turn that this reduces things becoming in such a bind and as upset, as the tire tread will be forced to surrender (tread walk) to the torque being applied from the engine.   ;)

     And in the attempt to push one's drag car, with a locked rear and the big soft pavement grabbing slicks, around a sharp corner, push until you just can't make it move any farther, block the inside of the turn front wheel, then roll the floor jack under the rear and lift the rear which will then unload the windup, set it down and you'll find that you can push it forward, some more, though you may have to repeat this before you have reached your destination.  And if on an improved surface (concrete, asphalt, etc.) while you have the rear end off the ground, swing it out around the corner pointing the noise of the car in the direction you intend to travel this lessening the sum of turning required in the distance of the pushing exercise.   :)

     Scott.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2024, 06:01:19 PM by pbf777 »

fryedaddy

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Re: full spool
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2024, 08:29:16 AM »
thank you Scott and everyone else for the info.it makes it easier for me to adjust.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

Falcon67

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Re: full spool
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2024, 10:07:10 AM »
Same - 9" with spool, all the above.  Tires chip on corners on the street, "scrunch" around at the track on what are usually not wonderfully paved surfaces at most tracks. Drive on wet road at your own risk.  If it's a street/strip type car, much better off with a DL as it will unlock for corners and be a bit more forgiving. Not much, but some. Both require respect and restraint on the street.  The two main things with a DL is on the strip, make sure you have enough room to pull straight forward after a burnout to be sure the DL is locked.  And on the street, never "punch it" going around a corner.  It will not do a cute tail wag - the DL will lock and send the nose heading in whatever direction it happens to be pointing.  Don't ask me how I know these things  ;D ;D ;D

hbstang

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Re: full spool
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2024, 11:16:33 PM »
if you are going to street drive mostley,i would run the true trac geared posi.they are pretty strong and work like a spool in a straight line,and allow easy turns.not cheap though!

Jb427

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Re: full spool
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2024, 05:32:21 AM »
Invest in the best 1350 joints and billet caps that you can get. With a spool, especially on the street, the stresses placed on those pieces, as well as axles and wheel studs, cannot be overstated.

Take CJ's and hbstangs advice you can really brake stuff with a spool on the street. Braking an axle in a 66/67 fairlane would not be good I run a true trac gives great driving and they are silent no banging when turning tight like a detroit lockers do. Just don't buy a cheap ebay copy spend the money and get a real eaton true track.

pbf777

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Re: full spool
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2024, 10:37:08 AM »
      Do note that the "Tru-Trac" and the other worm-geared type units are a friction resistance reaction type, and therefore do not provide assurance that even in strait forward tire spinning instances that both wheels are actually turning at the same speed.   ;)

      Scott.

cleandan

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Re: full spool
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2024, 09:57:18 AM »
freydaddy, just another chiming in with some helpful advice.
A full spool changes things drastically because you now have a single purpose tool in the rear end rather than a multi-tasking differential.

Do a bit of research online concerning the geometry at work when you have two different lines being traversed while connected.
The easy description: When turning, the inside tire travels less distance than the outside tire.
This means the two tires, connected via the spool, must figure out a way to travel different distances, at different speeds, while being radially connected by the axel shaft.....something MUST give.

What gives, hopefully, is the tires traction ability....meaning the tires must skid in some manner.
The inside tire scuffs around the smaller circumference while the outer tire skids and tries to keep up with the radius turning speed of the inside tire.

ALL of this causes every portion of the suspension and rear driveline to bind as it works to overcome the traction limits of the tires as they skid.

From the driver seat you WILL feel, and hear, many things you have not yet experienced.
Be specially aware of on and off throttle chassis/steering inputs as you go around cloverleafs at speed.
It will basically feel like your car is being shoved by the hand of god as it shifts during the turn....often in an unsettling manner because the car tries to either go straight, or the unloading and loading of the suspension "grabs" and then slips, and then "grabs" again, over and over until the curve is complete.

EVERY portion of this is elevated if the road surface has any type of traction limiters, (rain, sand, snow, dirt, leaves, mayflies, etc)

If you have a BIG parking lot available I strongly suggest you drive around that empty lot fiddling with turning radiuses, throttle inputs, braking inputs, and other things just to get used to driving with a spool and sticky tires.

Once you have a full understanding about what is going on and what is normal then you can drive around with knowledge and confidence.......But don't think for a second you can toss the keys to another driver and hope they do okay.

A spool is a dedicated tool that can not be duplicated any other way....but like most dedicated tools, they have their limitations and place.

I don't think the street is a good place for a spool equipped driver style car.
If you are taking a dedicated drag car to a special show once or twice per year then it is okay.
But if this is your "daily" cruiser a spool gives rise to many plausible troubles that other differential options cover in a far better manner.

A Detroit Locker is one better example.
They come with their own set of "instructions" but they are MUCH better on the street than a full spool.

Anyway, know what you installed and understand the "contract" you signed when installing the spool in your street driven toy.

Big power, skinny front tires, wrinkle wall slicks and a spool make for some exciting driving......just hope and prey it does not rain....ANYWHERE you will be driving that particular night of street racing, otherwise you may find yourself driving home at a comically slow speed just so you don't crash while driving straight down the highway....The on ramps are really fun.

I, ummm, read about this in a magazine once....Yeah, that's the ticket, in a magazine.