Help with problem

[JimNolan]

Guys,
    This is in reference to the 410 I built for my 57 Fairlane making six passes at the Meltdown Drags.
    Here's my problem. The first three gears do an outstanding job. But, when I go into fourth the car just falls on it's face. I let up once and it actually picked up speed again. The best I could turn was 14.80 @ 95.35mph. That's with a 2.38 sec 60' (won't tub to get more either, she is what she is for the first 60') and falling on it's face at the end of the track. Did the same thing every pass. If I could have forth gear I know I'd be in the 13's. It doesn't miss at all. Smoother than hell, just don't go.
1.    I'm changing to 3/8" fuel line this week and putting my Edelbrock fuel pump on it. Please don't ask why I didn't change it before.
2.   Timing is 34 degrees totally with all coming in by 2400. Mr Gasket springs. Do you think I need more advance. 9.5CR and no spark knock with 87 octane. I've got it set at 14 initial now.
3.  750 holley with 72 jets on every corner. No black smoke coming out of tailpipes during runs.
4. The hotter it gets the worse it gets. Engine temp is 180 degrees. Outside temp was in the 90's.
5. My engine was laboring to do 4500 rpm. I'd have thought it'd do better than that.
Is it just running out of gas.

[machoneman]

Tank vent or vented gas cap?  Right after a run, stop and pop the gas cap. Should be no pressure nor vacuum (woosh) effect. Heck, you can even go for a drive off the strip and try it. Your tank must be well vented or the gas cap must be vented.  Also suspect is the sock inside the tank's fuel pickup, as are old, mushy rubber gas lines that can collapse on the fuel pump's suction side. Be sure all the rubber lines are in tip-top shape as well.

[JimNolan]

I just put a new gas cap on it two weeks ago. Unvented, but, it had an unvented on it before. I'll try what you suggest. I just can't understand why I go good through three gears and not the forth. Thanks

[machoneman]

The float bowls take awhile to empty if the gas supply (lack of pressure, lack of venting, collapsing lines, etc.) isn't up to the task. Once the bowls empty down the track, no power! 

[JimNolan]

These guys have beat me over the head telling me I need to change my fuel line. It IS getting done this week. I'm taking it to Columbus for the Ford Expo Shootout at the end of August. I want it to run as good as I can get it to.

[hbstang]

fuel system for sure,including pump,filters etc making sure there is no restriction.i would also look at the jetting.have you pulled a plug after a run?how do they look?

[bartlett]

IMHO 72's sounds lean on the sec.   also twist in some more timing ...18/36 or so ....

[JimNolan]

No I haven't pulled a plug to check. The fuel filter is in the fuel pump. When I go to my Edelbrock fuel pump I'll have to add another one inline. Up until this weekend you couldn't have gotten me to believe it'd run out of gas. It did great in colder weather. This is the first time I've actually ran this motor on the track.  It did good other wise. No runs or drips. No unusual noises after the run. Just quit pulling in fourth gear. Fine afterward.

[RJP]

Are you running a secondary power valve-PVCR? If not your secondary jetting is too lean. Try 78-80s in the sec. without p/v.  And yes the stock 5/16" line is too small. Don't forget to upgrade your tank pickup to 3/8" as well. Rather than trying to race on 87 octane try a load of 91-92 and bump the timing up to 36-38 total. Start at 36 and sneak up on the 38 if it likes the 36. BTW, the engine picking up at part throttle is a good indication it is running out of fuel....going lean at WOT but backing off the throttle the A/F is now closer to optimum.

[JimNolan]

OK,
   I copied all this information down. Might as well, you guys built my engine more or less to begin with. All I did was put the parts together. The carb I have is the 0-80508SA 750 Dual Inlet Holley. I have 70 (not 72) jets in the primary and a #21 plate (equivalent to 75 jet) in the secondary. Don't trust my memory anymore so I looked it up to make sure.
1. I'll change to 3/8" fuel line to the tank. ( the tube laying inside the gas tank on my 57 was quiet large, more than 5/16 the best I remember. I had to get in there once and make it lay down flat against the bottom of the tank, so changing the inside pickup shouldn't be needed. It's a new tank also ( 4 yrs old with about 10K miles put on it each year)
2. Install my Edelbrock Chrome high capacity fuel pump ( I ran it on my other motor, didn't put it on this one because I didn't want chrome) go figure.
3. I'll file my mechanical weight on the distributor to give me 2 more degrees mechanical advance.
   
   Don't mean to sound stupid but you guys know me by now. If I want to increase secondary jetting, I take it you buy a plate that equals the jet size you need?

[My427stang]

Jim, do you know how that tank vents?

Seems odd that it'd run well down the road if the vent was bad, but also seems odd that an early car like that would not have a vented cap.

As far as the advance, it won't do anything to fix your problem, and honestly, the 3/8 line may not either.  I'd be 100% sure you are vented first, pump second, line third, and not touch the distributor unless you need to.

Also make sure your air cleaner lid isn't too close to the choke horn.

[machoneman]

How much gas is in the tank when you run the car? If less than say 1/2 tank, the pickup could be uncovered at launch, leading to air in the line. Btw, this is unlikely but hey, anything is possible.

[cammerfe]

I agree that you have a fuel delivery problem and the suggestions already made will, when totally followed, solve the difficulty you are experiencing. I'd also comment that I gave up on mechanical fuel pumps a very long time ago. (The location of the pump on a flathead---on the back of the intake manifold---tended to cause heat-related fuel-delivery problems)

I'd also comment that the traditional way of setting-up the diz on an FE is to use the 10-degree-marked (20 degrees ignition) notch in the factory diz to limit total advance and then dial in 18 degrees more-or-less of initial.
In order to do so you must use good-enough gas or you will encounter ping. But your driving experience will be such as to give you a permanent smile.

I wish you well!

KS

[RJP]

OK,
   I copied all this information down. Might as well, you guys built my engine more or less to begin with. All I did was put the parts together. The carb I have is the 0-80508SA 750 Dual Inlet Holley. I have 70 (not 72) jets in the primary and a #21 plate (equivalent to 75 jet) in the secondary. Don't trust my memory anymore so I looked it up to make sure.
1. I'll change to 3/8" fuel line to the tank. ( the tube laying inside the gas tank on my 57 was quiet large, more than 5/16 the best I remember. I had to get in there once and make it lay down flat against the bottom of the tank, so changing the inside pickup shouldn't be needed. It's a new tank also ( 4 yrs old with about 10K miles put on it each year)
2. Install my Edelbrock Chrome high capacity fuel pump ( I ran it on my other motor, didn't put it on this one because I didn't want chrome) go figure.
3. I'll file my mechanical weight on the distributor to give me 2 more degrees mechanical advance.
   
   Don't mean to sound stupid but you guys know me by now. If I want to increase secondary jetting, I take it you buy a plate that equals the jet size you need?

You have the option of changing the metering plate or installing a sec. metering block and not mess with plates. The 70/75 jetting IMO is on the lean side as most 750s/780s came with 72s in the primary and I've found that 78s to 80s [no p/v] in the sec. works well. 

[Barry_R]

Running out of gas.
I would not mess with jetting until you've got the 3/8 line installed along with the better pump.
There's a reason Ford did that on stone stock CJ cars in the 60s - its necessary.
A Carter M6905 pump will handle your needs without the chrome - likely a better pump too...
It's a waste of time without fuel supply - it'll read dead lean even if its pig rich in the first three gears