Author Topic: Sleeve install with zero deck  (Read 1218 times)

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Jim Comet

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Sleeve install with zero deck
« on: July 16, 2023, 07:57:17 AM »
Unfortunately I broke another valve spring retainer, this time on number 8 intake and dropped a valve on my 390 block. The block has been zero decked. Will they be able to install the sleeve and trim it to zero without taking material off the whole deck? or will they have to take some and I will then have the pistons out of the bore?  Here is before photo.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2023, 04:37:22 PM by Jim Comet »

Heo

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Re: Sleeve install with zero deck
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2023, 05:18:08 PM »
If the piston gets to much out of the hole, you can compensate with a thicker headgasket



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WConley

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Re: Sleeve install with zero deck
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2023, 08:07:27 PM »
I bet it can be done with very careful setup on the milling machine.  You could knock the sleeve down within a couple thousandths of the deck and just leave it there.  Then you won't scratch the deck, and the gasket fire ring will handle the minimal extra height.

The trick is finding a machinist willing to invest the setup time.
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My427stang

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Re: Sleeve install with zero deck
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2023, 09:28:02 PM »
We had one with a pinhole after machining, had to do the same.

It takes good setup, but it can be done.  Keep in mind, depending on your head gasket and quench, there is also nothing wring with going proud too.  Cut .005 off both decks and use a thicker gasket if you had to.
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pbf777

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Re: Sleeve install with zero deck
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2023, 12:11:49 PM »
The trick is finding a machinist willing to invest the setup time.

    No........actually "the trick is finding" the customer who would pay for the actual time required!   :o

    I have done many sleeve installations over the decades and I would say that for a number of reasons if one chose not to deck the block, no matter how careful an effort was put forth in the sleeve installation operation, even though it might only have required a minimum of a cut to clean-up, one is going to be relying on the gaskets' conformability sealing capability; but of coarse that is why it has been incorporated into the assembly in the first place............   Right?!  ;)

    Generally, one should anticipate only say.........two to maybe three thousandths, but surely most often something less than five anyway (this usually only due to greater press value on installation and/or unseen damage in the "blow-up,  when the cylinder wall collapsed pulling the deck downward about the sleeve area), cut from the overall deck surface in order to level everything up, that being attributed solely to the cause of a reasonable sleeve install.  After that, what does the rest of the deck look like and why, as often when the surfacer (that of a proper machine type) makes a minimal pass of say a thou, it can at times be surprising what might be revealed of a deck that was thought to be clean and square?   ;)

    Again, as is so often the case, it's just a matter of how critically one looks at something, as to how much they might actually realize.    :)

    Scott.

 
   
« Last Edit: July 17, 2023, 12:17:11 PM by pbf777 »

Jim Comet

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Re: Sleeve install with zero deck
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2023, 08:27:33 PM »
Thanks for all the responses guys. after looking at the Cometic website, I should be able to compensate for any small cut that is needed. Gonna be a while getting it back together but I am going to take the time I need to do it right. Jim

oldiron.fe

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Re: Sleeve install with zero deck
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2023, 04:16:11 PM »
   I am building a iron block/head hi-rise -a gapp/roush std bore side-oiler found some pits in a bore and decided to sleeve one for sure .    the block was prepped by g/r with o-rings etc. not going                 to cut whole deck-o-rings- have tool/die friend and good shop --took sleeve w/in one thou. of deck    can be done     this was on c/c machine              john-oldiron                                                                                                                       
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Jim Comet

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Re: Sleeve install with zero deck
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2023, 10:07:42 PM »
Well, we are going to find out X2. I finished dissasembling the motor tonight and found a piece of valve from number 8 intake made its way to number 2 cylinder and imbedded into the top of the edge of the piston causing a bulge which spit the cylinder. At least they are opposite banks and ends of the motor. Jim

superduty

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Re: Sleeve install with zero deck
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2023, 12:40:18 AM »
What a nightmare. Could you tell us what retainers you are using so this will not happen to any of us?

Jim Comet

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Re: Sleeve install with zero deck
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2023, 05:32:09 AM »
They are Crower tool steel retainers. All the machinist that I have talked to said they have never seen anything like it before. There must be something wonky with my setup. I will be getting a new cam, springs and retainers in hopes to avoid this again. Jim

pbf777

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Re: Sleeve install with zero deck
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2023, 10:12:37 AM »
There must be something wonky with my setup.

      Now I'm not looking at the failed componentry, but beyond the product being faulty, which I probably doubt in this case, then be sure to check the 'coil-bind' clearance value on the springs, 'guide to retainer' clearance sum at full valve lift, and for the evidence of excessive movement in the valvetrain part relationships which may be indicative of repetitive 'valve-float' instances?   :-\

      Scott.