Author Topic: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?  (Read 1448 times)

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cleandan

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Hello all. I am working with a 1967 428PI, all stock, factory dual point distributor, factory dual quad intake.
I attempted to remove the distributor today to replace the seal.
The distributor is in excellent condition, no corrosion, or damage.
The clamp and bolt removed easily.
The distributor turns easy, and lifts about 3/4" easily too, and then seems to hit something inside.

This is making removal difficult to say the least.
I tried to nudge it a bit, wiggle things and work it out, but it feels like a hard mechanical stop.....so I quit rather than damage things on this particular distributor.

What in the heck is keeping this otherwise free floating distributor in the engine?

Thanks and have a great day.

frnkeore

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2023, 12:39:10 PM »
The oil pump drive clip.

Oil pump drive, may be stuck in the dist socket. Reason, unknown.
Frank

pbf777

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2023, 12:51:50 PM »
What in the heck is keeping this otherwise free floating distributor in the engine?


      I would suspect from here (I'm not there!  ::)), that the oil pump drive shaft is lodged in the distributor shafts' female hex and not allowing the shaft to 'drop'; the allowed vertical lift distance is that permitted by the drive shaft retainer clip, or if equipped with a H.D. shaft perhaps the larger diameter of the shaft in its' middle section, that will not pass thru the hole in the block casting.   :-\

      If this is so, decide on how hard you intend to push & pull on the distributor in the attempt of its' extraction, if and when that threshold it reached and if to no avail, then next I would pull the oil pan and oil pump for better access to the shaft itself.   ;)

      Scott

GerryP

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2023, 12:59:12 PM »
I have never heard of the pump driveshaft being captured by the distributor.  But then, I haven't seen everything.  I've also never heard of anyone using a longer bolt in the timing cover that has now trapped the distributor.  But then, I haven't seen everything.

blykins

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2023, 01:54:15 PM »
Has it ever been apart?

I've seen some goobers put screw in gallery plugs and not tap the one behind the distributor deep enough.  Then they have to grind on the distributor to get it to drop down, then it gets turned to set the timing. 
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TomP

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2023, 02:05:38 PM »
I have them stuck in the shaft before. Pull it hard to break the clip and replace the clip later. Even the aftermarket shafts fit through the block hole

galaxiex

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2023, 03:19:08 PM »
I also have had the oil pump drive shaft stick in the dist drive hex.
They get worn on the corners of the hex and kinda wedge in there.
If lucky, you can sometimes turn the engine backwards slightly, and the shaft will loosen in the dist.
Every 20 minute job is 1 broken bolt away from becoming a 3 day ordeal.

pbf777

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2023, 03:26:23 PM »
I've seen some goobers put screw in gallery plugs and not tap the one behind the distributor deep enough.  Then they have to grind on the distributor to get it to drop down, then it gets turned to set the timing.


     Well I haven't experienced that one, but I have several times come across the similar too long and exposure oil gallery plug having been installed and then apparently a hammer being utilized to persuade the distributor to pass by!   :o

     
 
I have never heard of the pump driveshaft being captured by the distributor. 


      Quite common an ailment either in very old engines that get gummed-up and/or suffer from corrosion in the crankcase, or particularly if foreign particulate of an incompressible nature has passed thru the pump in operation and turns the hex's (male to female) in their relationship.   :)

      Scott.

cleandan

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2023, 06:19:43 AM »
On this engine I do not know the history.
It could be a 52,000 mile original based on the odometer and the rest of the cars condition....The car is quite nice, but it is not a show queen by any measure.
Things have been regasketed at some point so I suspect the distributor has been out at least one time since new.

The idea of a screw in plug, and subsequent grinding, to end up with a "keyed" fit is an odd one, but I can turn and pull to see if this is the case.

When I tried to pull the distributor yesterday I did not pull up any harder than just me leaning over the grill and pulling up. I did "tap" the distributor up and down as I tried, but hardly anything harsh or even remotely a strong pull.
I figured the pump drive was sticking too.

During all this I never got it out far enough to disengage the cam/distributor gear mesh....Pretty close, but it never disengaged.

With the engine running I hear what sounds like the rotor hitting the 8 cap electrodes as it spins, but there is no evidence of contact.
I checked the rotor well to see if the tip had come loose....nope, tight and right.
I looked closely at the cap electrodes, and rotor, to see if there were any witness marks, nothing touching that I can see.

Maybe I have just forgotten how much noise a set of dual points make with the engine running.

Thumperbird

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2023, 07:19:36 AM »
I'm not familiar with the position/clearance or not of the seal on this specific distributor so take this for what it is worth.
If your only goal is a seal replacement, cut the old one off if it lifts up far enough to get at it, slit the new at an angle(wedge), install, splice, and move on.
This is of course a hack but better than the possibility of opening up a can of worms if you have to get too aggressive or disassemble too much.
Heck you could probably even use some old impregnated rope gasket and get a good seal.     

pbf777

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2023, 10:07:25 AM »

When I tried to pull the distributor yesterday I did not pull up any harder than just me leaning over the grill and pulling up. I did "tap" the distributor up and down as I tried, but hardly anything harsh or even remotely a strong pull.

During all this I never got it out far enough to disengage the cam/distributor gear mesh....Pretty close, but it never disengaged.


     'If' it is the pump shaft that is lodged in the distributors' female hex drive, and 'if' the pump shaft is of a standard production type (full length 5/16" hex stock), and 'if' it is the shaft retainer clip presenting the resistance to the removal process, then with care as to not cause damage to the distributor or camshaft gear teeth (allow the distributor shaft to float freely, do not apply force to the shaft  ;)), then often the retaining clip can be forced to slide down the shafts length (if the two don't separate first  :-\) with lifting of the distributor body using forceful effort (realize that the distributor is not of a construction conducive to the use of "pry-bars"  ::)); but then of coarse the fallen clip (bent and/or broken) will be lost into the oil pan, and retrieval would be recommended.   :)

     'If' this were the path chosen and acceptable results are had, and without the removal of the oil pan in the process, then the next challenge is "dropping in" a new drive shaft into position without losing it into the oil pan  :o ; and realizing that it won't have clip present (won't suffer this issue again!  ::)) and that next time one chooses to remove the distributor and without exercising a certain sum of care the pump shaft may get dropped into the oil pan, as that 'is' the purpose of the clip to prevent.   :)

     Now, 'if' this is the issue, one shaft turned in the other, things could be much worse, as often when this happens the lower section of the distributors female hex section will be expanded into the block casting boss's bore relief and have grooved/ground/traded material, and this can prove quite the situation!   :o     

     Scott.

cleandan

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2023, 03:20:27 PM »
I have poked and prodded, and listened with the stethescope, here and there and from what I can gather things sound pretty normal and good.

I am going to run the engine until hot then lift the distributor as high as it will go and then clamp/prop it in the lifted position and leave it sit overnight.
With some luck the pump driveshaft will eventually drop out of the distributor....and back into the pump.
I'll let you know how this shot in the dark goes.....and cross your fingers so the shaft does not end up being oil pan fodder I have to retreive.

I've heard the dreaded "clunk" before and it does not make the day go better.

Thanks for all the advice so far, it all helps because it either confirms what I already knew, or gives me something different to think about.

cleandan

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2023, 08:29:54 AM »
Alas....no luck with letting it "hang" overnight........Rats!

fekbmax

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2023, 11:56:14 AM »
Not what you want to hear but i Had a 360 truck engine do the same thing. Used a Long piece of 2x4 on edge and rocked the dizzy up out of the hole.
Keith.  KB MAX Racing.

fryedaddy

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Re: I'm having trouble removing the distributor....what say you?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2023, 06:13:10 PM »
i bought an old engine that was so gummed up that the pushrods had to be chissled out to remove them
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new