Looking For High End Crank Balancing In States Surrounding Iowa

[Mr Woodys Garage]

I'm Looking For Advice And Recommendations For A Machine Shop In The Central US That Can Balance A New Steel 4.25 Stroke Scat Forged Steel Crankshaft, Molnar H Beam Rods, And Mahle 4.160 Forged Pistons, To Perfection. Im Looking For A Shop That Removes The Weight To Obtain Balance By Machining The Counterweights Rather Than Drilling Them Full Of Holes. I Know It Will Cost More, But If The Information, That I'm Basing This On Is Correct, There Should Be Multiple Benefits To Be Gained By Going This Route. I Know That The Common, Quicker Way Of Balancing Is To Drill Huge Holes In The Counterweights. Its Effective, Quick, And Common, But It Just Looks Wrong. This Is A Build That I Want To Be 110% The Absolute Best That I Can Make It. So, Any Preferred Shops That Members Can Direct Me To? Any Help Will Be Appreciated.

[blykins]

I wouldn't waste your time/money on that.  You will never know the difference once the oil pan is on. 

In addition, a lot of your aftermarket FE crankshafts will need metal, not metal taken away. 

[mbrunson427]

I agree with Brent, we balance our own crankshafts, I'd worry more about it being done correctly than the means and methods of how they get it in balance. When we're done with one the crank will freewheel for minutes on the balancer. If the heavy metal was placed properly the holes shouldn't be very deep anyhow. Our technique is when placing the heavy metal to slightly overshoot and place the metal slightly higher out than when it truly needs to be, then you can drill a small hole in the counterweight right above it to get it back to balance. You do this because accidentally doing the opposite and under-shooting on weight means you need to add another slug of heavy metal, and that's an uglier end product than the other option.

[My427stang]

Three times a charm

I haven't seen a reciprocating assembly that didn't require something added yet on an FE.  In very light combos, light pin, thin ring, dished and Molnar or K1 rods, I have seen only small amounts needed, more on the more standard parts

That being said, one of my two guys has taken counterweights down on a SBF before, then drilled to make final numbers, it worked great, but it was a very light SBF combo not an FE

[Royce]

Ted Eaton is on this forum occasionally.  Eaton Balancing is his business.. He can tell you everything there is to know about crank balancing.. He is in Tx.. but shipping a crank is not hugely expensive.  Also Adney Brown in Detroit area has done a lot of FE cranks and is well know in performance circles

[Mr Woodys Garage]

Thank You, Royce.  That Was The Kind Of Answer I Am Looking For. There Are Many Ways To Build A "Mousetrap", And As I Come From Old School Thinking About All The Little Things And Details That Add Up, I Need To Be Sure That The Balance Is 100% Right On This Project, As Well As All The Other Details. I Am Still Open To Referals Of Other Shops Or Professionals Who Specialize In This Skill.  Im Looking For A Professional That Does This For The Love Of The Craft, Not Necessarily Someone Who Is In It Just For The Money. Thanks To  Brent, Ross, And M Brunson For The Ideas And Thoughts On This As Well. I Value Each Of Your Thoughts And Opinions, And Appreciate You Taking The Time To Respond To My Question

[Barry_R]

I believe that CWT Balancers have an optional software package that helps determine the OD removal location and diameter for that kind of balancing - but I do not know of any shops that use it.  Probably found in very high end stuff - NASCAR and Pro Stock etc.  We have cut counterweights down on mill and/or lathe in the past, but it's been for clearance reasons and any balance benefit from a bonus.  Most of our FE balance requires localized weight addition and/or subtraction, and moving effective weight from one end of a counterweight to another.  Drilled holes and added metal are by far the most cost effective way to accomplish the goal.

[AlanCasida]

You might give George(Anderson) a call at Gessford Machine shop in Hastings, Nebraska. That's where I get my machine work done and they KNOW Fe motors.
 https://www.gessford.com/

[pbf777]

Im Looking For A Shop That Removes The Weight To Obtain Balance By Machining The Counterweights Rather Than Drilling Them Full Of Holes. I Know It Will Cost More, But If The Information, That I'm Basing This On Is Correct, There Should Be Multiple Benefits To Be Gained By Going This Route.

     I'm often curious as to others' understandings and beliefs, and perhaps for the benefit of a better understanding for myself and of others could you expand on this as to, other than for "looks", what would you believe to be the "multiple benefits to gained by going this route"?   

     And yes, I have done many in this fashion in the past.   

     Scott.

[Mr Woodys Garage]

 "The counterweight can be drilled in specific spots, or the crankshaft can be turned on a lathe and the counterweight can be cut down to achieve balance. If turning the crank on a lathe is possible, in a lot of ways, it is a better way to remove weight. Cutting removes mass, which changes inertia characteristics. Anytime overall rotational mass can be reduced, it’s beneficial". Copied And Pasted From I Believe Eatons Web Site, Or Scats, I Forget Which.
     It Is My Belief That Any Time There Are Holes Drilled In The Counter Weights It Can/Will Weaken The Crank,(After All, Its "Made In China" lol!)(4.25 Forged Steel Scat Crankshaft) And The Holes Create Windage/Drag. I Tend To Strive For The Best That I Can Afford, Which Is Not That Much, But, If Whatever I Build Comes Apart When Im Showing Off, Or Beating It, Then Any Savings In The Cost Of My Build Will Be Minimal In Comparison To The Cost Of An Entire Engine That Explodes Due To Failure Of Inferior Parts, Machining, Or Shortcuts. Im Not Expecting To See Age 70, ( i Am 64 Now) And As I Already Have 8 Years in Building The Car, I Don't Want To Have To Take It Apart Once Its Together. I've Learned So Much From The Contributions Of The Professionals That Contribute To This Forum, For That, I'm Grateful. Thanks To Those Who Share Their Knowledge And Experience.

[Jb427]

How much HP and Rpm are you hunting for? it will cost a small fortune to try and get what your looking for. I could maybe see if you wanted 800hp and was road racing and had a unlimited budget
From what I read of your rotating parts you have good stuff.

[MeanGene]

I have been considering this too, have read about folks in the old days doing this with the quite heavy 391 steel crank. I have a 454 setup with light internals, factory internally lightened Arias domes, Crower rods, and with an iron 428 crank, fairly light. I have some pretty good heads and intake so could lean on it and RPM it pretty good. I also have an FE converted 391 crank that was welded and stroked to 3.98 by a well-known skillful crank guy (someone here will recognize this crank) so I was wondering about turning down the outside to lighten it as much as balance would allow, trim up the weight shape a bit etc. I have a 16x60 South Bend, and a Bridgeport so the physical lightening part can happen with my own labor, and my neighbor's machine shop has a good balancer, so I'm thinking take everything in and see how much and where I could cut. I'm sure it would take several trips to the balancer to sneak up on it, then final balance in the normal way. Thinking with some good oiling I could have a pretty solid lower end. Thoughts from the more educated brethren?

[blykins]

Drilling a few balance holes in a crank will not cause it to come apart or explode, nor will it cause you to have to take anything apart.  It's an aesthetics thing, not a strength thing. 

In addition, these cranks *need metal*, not need metal taken away.  Adding metal also involves drilling holes in the counterweights so that heavy metal can be pressed in.

In specific applications, we cut the counterweights down to reduce weight or help the engine accelerate quicker.  However, when you do that, you end up adding a lot more metal.

[Rory428]

Whenever I have sen a broken crankshaft, it has broken where the throw meets the side of the counterweight, and the radius. I can`t say that I have ever seen a crank counterweight break at the outer areas, where any holes would be drilled. Your choice, but to me, seems like a lot of bother to "fix" a problem that doesn`t exist. Factory FE crankshafts have multiple holes drilled into the counterweights, and have proven to be very durable, even in drag racing.

[MeanGene]

Well, my interest came because I have a light set of pistons, and though I haven't weighed them, the Crower rods would seem to be lighter than the heavy LeMans units. 454's have been done many times with the iron 428 cranks, which I have a bunch of. The rest of this thing would be capable of some RPM, so the iron crank would seem to be the weakest link, I could just balance it to the 391 crank, but since it has minimal drilling unlike the 427 units, it is one heavy mutha. This was done back in the day before cheap strokers came available, it would depend on how it balanced out, if it needed weight removed, it would be sweet to take some off the outside, especially as I could do that at my free labor. Anyone remember Dan Holmes? He had an ex-Ed Terry Drag Team 68 Mustang with a 447 (std bore) Tunnel Port using the old heavy TRWs, LeMans rods and a welded/stroked 391 crank like mine and a homemade clutch C6 and ran high 9s in the 80s with old-school suspension and not that big tires. One loud sumbitch, too. I was at Fremont one weekend when they had a funny car show, and they had a delay for an oildown. Took a while, then the announcer hollered here we go, and then BOOMBOOMBOOM echoed off that big plywood wall along the staging lanes. The whole crowd got up on their feet to see the funny cars- and Holmes pulled around the corner and lined up- it was that loud