Author Topic: Fox Body FE Swap Guide  (Read 2950 times)

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410bruce

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Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« on: March 15, 2023, 07:01:41 PM »
Jays thread got me to thinking that maybe it would be nice to have any information regarding a Fox body FE engine swap all in one place. I don't believe such a thread exists, or I haven't been able to locate it.
I know Rory has contributed many times to different threads through the years, but his information kind of gets lost when those posts die off.
So, if you have any experience performing this swap, or any information at all pertinent to this swap, please post up in this thread.

A few questions I have:
Have you run a Toploader 4-speed in this application? What pedals and clutch linkage did you use? Does a stock FE bell housing work?
Any valve cover interference with the stock Fox brake booster assembly when running tall aluminum pieces?
Cooling problems?

jayb

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2023, 08:26:32 PM »
Great idea for a thread, and I will post up the info on my car as it comes along.  Probably a year and a half in the making, but we'll see...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

410bruce

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2023, 07:13:57 AM »
Thanks Jay. I'm looking forward to following along on your build.

410bruce

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2023, 07:22:21 AM »
I do believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon of the Fox body with an FE as well.
Recently acquired an '89 Mustang automatic trans car with no engine or transmission from my boss. It's pretty rough but no rust.

So, my first contribution to this thread is this UPR K-member I just ordered. I think these things are kind of mandatory for any FE or big-block swap.
Just under $400 shipped.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294067838582?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338590836&toolid=10044&customid=c8f721f6e5d916c17c2845e5e57318ec

Rory428

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2023, 11:14:59 AM »
I started my FE FOX swap with my 78 Fairmont back in late 1986, and was racing it by 1988. Back then, there were no tubular K members available, so we did a bit of trimming on the factory K member. My 78 was a factory 4 cylinder car, which used the same K member as the 302, basically all we did was some minor trimming the make room for a stock FE PU truck 4x4 rear sump oil pan, and  cut a section of the shallow front section, so that the pan could nestle down closely around the factory manual steering rack. Made the notch deep enough so that the oil pump pickup tube and CJ windage tray was almost contacting the top of the steering rack. Welded a length of 2 1/2" exhaust tubing to fill the gap. Made some simple angle iron solid motor mounts that bolted to the factory motor mount holes on the block, and welded to flat plates welded onto the factory motor mount towers on the K member. I didn`t like the skinny 4x4 oil pickup tube, so modified a 391 Full sump pickup tube, which is much larger diameter, and has a removable screen. My car was a manual steering and brake car, so no idea if the booster on a power brake car would clear, but I kinda doubt it, at least where my FEs were located. Naturally, headers had to be custom made, the first set were a pair of the multi piece Hooker race headers for a FE 67-70 Mustang, heavily modified, with the 3rd tube on each side crossing under the oil pan, and going into the opposite collector. Those headers worked well, and were fairly easy to get on and off, but hung down pretty low, so got abnged up on big whelstands. Later on ,around 1999, I swapped from a C6 to a Jerico 4 speed, and had TomP build a new pair of headers.  These headers fit much higher in the chassis, and never hit the ground, but took much longer to install. Also, when I did the 4 speed swap, I made up the clutch linkage, using the original clutch pedal, and a Z bar and clutch fork, and lower adjuster from a 73-76 F series FE PU truck. Basically copied the truck linkage, so the clutch pedal had a rod (made from grade 8 Redi Rod and 3/8" rod ends), that went from the clutch pedal, thru the floor between the gas and brake pedals, and pulled upwards on the Z bar, like the trucks did. The Z bar and engine side pivot ball bracket were un modified truck parts, for the "frame side" Z bar pivot, I took a truck pivot ball frame bracket, removed the staked ball pivot, and welded it into a piece of 1/4" steel plate, and welded that to the inside of the factory frame rail. Lower rod was another piece of Grade 8 Redi Rod, with a rod end at the Z bar, and the truck pointed lower adjuster , with the Readi Rod slipped inside. Since the Jerico DR4 is based on a Toploader, I imagine a Toploader 4 speed would fit the same, although the transmission tunnel is quite narrow, so we sliced the top of the tunnel, and pulled it outwards, and filled in the gap.  Trans crossmember is a length of 2" square tubing. When I went to a small block Ford a few years ago, I installed an aftermarket tubular K member , which would make building a set of FE headers much simpler. When we moved a few years ago, 4000 miles away, I had to get rid of a lot of stuff, I gave TomP the modified factory K member and motor mounts, if he still has it, he may be able to post a photo or 2. I still have the headers that Tom built for the FE, but the collectors basically disintgrated over the years, although the primary tubes are likely still usable. I also bought a set of FE headers from a drag racer who ran them on his 428 CJ powered 93 Mustang Super Stocker. I never tried them in my Fairmont, but I also have the front motor plates, mid plate, and my old FE oil pan and pickup, in case I ever want to put a FE back into the car. I have never had any luck posting photos on this site, but I could send them in a messenger to somebody if interested. I also have photos of the TomP headers on the 428, with the oil pan on, hanging on the engine hoist, and a couple of underhood shots. When we did the swap all those years ago, I wanted the engine as far back and as low as possible, using the factory K member and steering location, so the drivers side head is about 3/4" from the firewall, and the stock flat hood could close with a lower intake, like a Streetmaster, but it was quite close, with no air cleaner, so I have always ran a snorkle scoop on the stock hood and hinges.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

mbrunson427

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2023, 12:35:42 PM »
I recently acquired this oil pan, it came with a 445" package deal. The guy claimed he made it to go in a foxbody. Rory this sounds similar to the oil pan you describe?

If one of you fox body guys needs it, I'd sell it. I have no use for it, just had to buy it with the rest of the parts.




Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

Rory428

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2023, 04:26:39 PM »
Looks like it started out as the same 4x4 pan as mine, but that one is much more modified than mine. Other than a piece of 2 1/2"exhaust tubing to clear the steering rack, my pan was stock.  If I knew how to take a photo from my cell phone, and post it here, I would, but never figured it out. With facebook, I can post a photo right from my phone, but on web pages, seems the photos need to be loaded someplace else first?
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

410bruce

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2023, 06:37:28 PM »
Mbrunson427, I have a 4x4 pan I'm going to hopefully use, or I'd take you up on your offer.

Rory, I'd love to see any pictures you have to share. Maybe you can send them to someone on here more tech savvy than me and they could post them up?

410bruce

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2023, 08:04:23 PM »
Just received the UPR K member. Nice piece. I'll be installing it into the car whether the FE goes in or not.

Did some measurements and it looks like, at least in my preliminary eyeballing, the power brake booster will have to be deleted. I don't like the idea of going to manual brakes. Hmm...
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 12:15:50 AM by 410bruce »

TomP

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2023, 10:22:45 PM »
I could drag the K Member out of the shed. It is buried way back there and weighs a ton... because the lower control arms are still on it.

410bruce

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2023, 12:13:11 AM »
Maximum Motorsports makes a nice manual brake conversion kit.

https://www.maximummotorsports.com/Mustang-Manual-Brake-Conversions-C244.aspx

Rory428

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2023, 08:30:53 AM »
Even better is if you can find a factory manual brake Fairmont/Zephyr/Mustang/Capri setup at a wrecking yard. The manual pedal is different, and pivots in a lower hole in the pedal bracket (both holes are in the bracket.). My Fairmont was a factory manual steering and brakes car from the factory, but I have converted other power brake cars to manual, using all the factory parts. If you find a manual brake doner car , get the brake pedal, master cylinder, aluminum firewall adapter, and the distribution block and brake lines from the master to the dist. block. With all the aftermarket manual brake conversions kits that I have seen, they retain the power brake pedal, so you are giving up the extra mechanical advantage built into the factory setup, which has much more leverage. My Fairmont has the factory manual setup, with 11" 5.0 Mustang discs up front, and 11" drums out back, and it stops fine at most dragstrips, from 134 MPH. Yes, the pedal effort is obviously higher than with power brakes, but hardly objectionable, if you are familiar with manual brakes.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

410bruce

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2023, 09:37:27 AM »
Even better is if you can find a factory manual brake Fairmont/Zephyr/Mustang/Capri setup at a wrecking yard. The manual pedal is different, and pivots in a lower hole in the pedal bracket (both holes are in the bracket.). My Fairmont was a factory manual steering and brakes car from the factory, but I have converted other power brake cars to manual, using all the factory parts. If you find a manual brake doner car , get the brake pedal, master cylinder, aluminum firewall adapter, and the distribution block and brake lines from the master to the dist. block. With all the aftermarket manual brake conversions kits that I have seen, they retain the power brake pedal, so you are giving up the extra mechanical advantage built into the factory setup, which has much more leverage. My Fairmont has the factory manual setup, with 11" 5.0 Mustang discs up front, and 11" drums out back, and it stops fine at most dragstrips, from 134 MPH. Yes, the pedal effort is obviously higher than with power brakes, but hardly objectionable, if you are familiar with manual brakes.
There're no wrecking yards anywhere in my area anymore, unfortunately, so finding factory stuff locally is a no-go for me personally.
The Maximum Motorsports kit I posted addresses the pedal arm issue. It comes with a fabricated arm that has the correct leverage built in. And the pedal foot pad is adjustable up or down as well as in and out. It's a neat set-up.
Also, they recommend the '93-'95 Cobra Mustang master cylinder to go with their kit. It's a very well-thought-out deal.

410bruce

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2023, 06:45:54 PM »
A couple pics from MrRupp.


MrRupp

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Re: Fox Body FE Swap Guide
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2023, 02:36:43 PM »
Those pictures are with the 850. We picked up 2 tenths when we went to the 1050.
Clint