352 Performance?

[JimBo]

Hi All, I am helping a friend restore a '65 F100 pickup for his son. It came with a 352, which we pulled and took apart. This pickup has sat for 30 years, and I was surprised with how good a shape the engine was in. No cylinder wear, etc.

He wants to build it to be a better performer for his son and is willing to invest in it.

I have spare 390, 427, & 428 cranks and rods, however I am wondering if a Scat stroker kit might be a better option, as well as new heads, roller cam, intake, etc. I know these early blocks can be bored to oversize 390 bores to work with the stroker kits I have seen.

Would appreciate any suggestions for making this a stronger street engine.

[jayb]

My opinion would be to definitely go stroker, pick up 90 cubic inches over a 352 with better, brand new components.  Instantly a bunch more torque and horsepower.  Heads will depend on your horsepower goals, but there are several aftermarket heads out there that would also pick up a bunch of power over the stock heads.  Here's a build I did many years ago for Car Craft magazine that made pretty good power, for not a lot of money:

http://www.fepower.net/Articles/CCFE.pdf

[JimBo]

Thanks Jay,

Friend asked for 400 HP. There is plenty of good info in that article, I remember seeing it when it came out.

[blykins]

I'm always the devil's advocate LOL....

For just 400 hp, you could practically do anything, including slapping a good cam, intake, and heads on the 352.   From my testing, you can take a worn out 352 out of a pickup truck (at 8.5:1 and a 186° @ .050" factory cam) and make 260 hp with just a header/intake/carb swap, so 400 hp isn't out of the realm of possibility with a 352 and some good parts. 

This little 352 made 430 hp with unported factory heads, a Police Interceptor intake, with pump gas compression ratio.  Now granted, it was a healthy solid roller camshaft, but a really good set of aftermarket heads and a streetable camshaft would most likely net the same results.



A 390 with factory heads and a good cam/intake will make over 400.  A 416 (352 or 390 with a 3.980" crank) will do the same. 

My advice would be to just sit down and see what you have, see what you want to spend, and then go from there.  There's a rabbit hole that you can easily fall into when it comes to "what should I upgrade?". 

A 445 with TFS heads, Performer RPM intake, and a hydraulic roller will generally knock on the door of 550 hp and 590 lb-ft of torque, while running on pump gas and having ample vacuum for power brakes.   You will be looking at ~$2000 for a full stroker rotating assembly, including Scat crank, Scat rods, Mahle/Racetec pistons, etc., so if you're tight on budget, a set of factory rods and a factory crank will be very comfortable at the 400 hp level, and then you'd just need pistons.

My advice, no matter what route you decide, is to have the block *fully* machined and machined well.  That includes boring/honing with torque plates, squaring the decks, and align honing the mains with ARP fasteners.  The block work/prep is the foundation for any route that you decide to take with the bottom end/top end, so I would get the block to the machine shop first and get it taken care of.  Another piece of advice that I can give is that a 352 block will not always go to 4.080-4.090" bore sizes, so I would have it sonic tested first before putting it in the boring bar.   Shelf pistons are easily obtainable for 4.080-4.090-4.100" blocks, but if your block won't reliably go to that bore size, for a couple hundred bucks more you can get a custom pistons made for whatever bore size you're comfortable with. 

[WConley]

I'm always the devil's advocate LOL....
...

My advice, no matter what route you decide, is to have the block *fully* machined and machined well.  That includes boring/honing with torque plates, squaring the decks, and align honing the mains with ARP fasteners.  The block work/prep is the foundation for any route that you decide to take with the bottom end/top end, so I would get the block to the machine shop first and get it taken care of...

Brent speaketh the truth!  You would be amazed at how far "off" an untouched factory block can be.  Then throw in 55 years of heat cycles.  Get the block all trued up.  It's like the AAMCO transmission guy used to say:  "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later!"

Have a great Christmas, y'all!

[MeanGene]

My favorite best bang for the buck is still the 410/416 thing, reproducing the factory combo for cheap. A 3.98 crank, good set of "short" rods, and a set of std "390 pickup" pistons which are actually 410 Merc spec and can be found very cheaply, bore it to 4.05 with basic good heads, intake etc.

[427John]

I like Brent's advice since you already have the rotating assembly pieces to build enough cubic inches to easily reach your power goals, but if there is a possibility of wanting to significantly upgrade power down the road and we all know how that goes, then Jay's stroker advice really starts to look more attractive.

[FrozenMerc]

More information on exactly what he wants the truck to do would help us point you in a more defined direction, rather than just throwing out suggestions. 

You mentioned 400 hp.  OK, but doing what in the truck?  I can build a 400 Hp 289 or a 400 hp 7.3L.  They are going to have very different uses.

I built my 352 to pull a 4500 lb plus wagon down the road at 70 mph all day long, in OD, with minimal effort.  That motor put out 325 HP, 375 ft-lbs on the dyno with a very flat torque curve that comes in at over 300 ft-lbs as low as 2500 rpms, perfect for a highway cruiser.

A bit more cam and compression, and that engine would be very capable of 400 hp, but I would likely be moving the torque curve up higher into the RPM range as well.  Which would work well in more of a stop light bruiser application.  Throw some more stroke at it to lower the rpm range of the torque curve and you are back in the good pickup motor that can tow category.

Lot's of Options, which is why a good plan is critical.