DipStick Woes and Fuel Line / Exhaust Clearance

[CV355]

First, I have grown to really hate the FE dipstick design.  I wasted two weekends fabricating dipstick tubes only to find that no matter what I did, the dipstick (Cable or flat style) would just run up over the windage tray.  The Procharger inlet interferes with the original tube location.  I decided to give up on that original location and plugged it.  Unfortunately I can't get a 7qt pan on the engine because of the headers, and I have a Moroso 5qt on at the moment.  Is anyone aware of any methods for putting a dipstick in?  I looked at designing and machining a tube flange to put into the side of the 5qt pan, but I'm not sure if I can get it high enough to measure the top of the oil and not just fully submerge it.

Second...  We finished out the exhaust this weekend and it sounds great.  I went with a Magnaflow 2.5", and it took some custom fab to make it all work.  One concern I have is that the fuel lines (-10 and -8 PTFE) loop up and over the exhaust and get rather close.  The return is roughly 1.25" away where it crosses over.  I have a large Cool-It heat shield over the exhaust in that area, and the fuel lines have heat shield sleeves over them too.  There is no other way to route the lines without having to remake them.  The long term plan is to bring the car to a local exhaust shop and having them TIG up custom over-axle pipes to get better clearance.  Just curious if I could get by with this in the short term.  The lines continue along the pinch weld, run through the torque box, frame rail, and come up through the battery shelf in the engine bay, so they're as far away from headers as possible.  I'm thinking about snaking a thermocouple into the fuel line sleeve and measuring the temp on a drive. 

[Rory428]

To me, it sounds like your dissatisfaction with the FE dipstick design is misplaced, seems the issue is due to aftermarket bracketry, rather than any problem with the factory design. On my 59, I have a Canton 7qt. oil pan, a factory J windage tray, and a replacement CJ dipstick and tube from Tony D Branda. To make the dipstick clear the windage tray required just a minor bend at the end of the dipstick, so when I install the dipstick, it misses the tray. I suppose that you could remove the cast iron  dipstick mounting housing, from either a FE 4x4 rear sump pan, or maybe a 5.0 FOX Mustang pan, and install it into the FE pan, in an appropriate location, and use the matching dipstick and tube. These brackets are riveted to the oil pan, with a cork gasket.  Also, I can`t see why a deep sump oil pan would be an issue with headers, unless you are planing on using a wide, road race type pan. I have used 9 quart front sump pans on a couple of Fairlanes and Mustangs, using either Hooker or Cyclone headers, and there was plenty of room between the oil pan and headers.

[jayb]

I think with the insulation over the exhaust pipes and the fuel lines, you will be OK on that aspect.  I encountered the same difficulties with the dipstick when I ran the Vortech supercharger in my Mach 1.  I ended up still using the stock dipstick location, but fabricating a very short dipstick tube and dipstick, so that I could reach under the supercharger to get it out and check the oil.  I put a bend in the dipstick at the end, so that when it went into the tube it would guide itself past the windage tray.  If that won't work for you and you have to put a tube in the oil pan, just make sure that the tube enters the oil pan at a point higher up than the bottom of the windage tray.  The best way would be to weld a little kickout at the top of the pan, so that the dipstick can clear the pan rail and go in as straight down as possible.

[thatdarncat]

If there’s some room on either side of the sump, a company called Masta Performance makes an add-on dipstick that has a mounting block that attaches to the side of the pan. Similar to what Rory is describing with the stock 4x4 or truck oil pan. Or if a person is handy you could probably fabricate something similar. Here’s a couple pictures I took at the PRI show.

[CV355]

To me, it sounds like your dissatisfaction with the FE dipstick design is misplaced, seems the issue is due to aftermarket bracketry, rather than any problem with the factory design.

That's a fair statement, but I was also having trouble with the dipstick in stock fashion too, before I opted to change the design.  I have REF headers, and several primaries interfered with a Moroso 7qt pan right on the ends of the "T".  I thought about mitering the corners on the pan but then just opted for a 5qt instead.  That would address the problem entirely but getting that pan off required removing the headers.  I may just buy another one and have it fabricated accordingly.

The 4x4 pan idea is excellent.  I just can't find any inset flanges as a separate item, might have to design my own.

I think with the insulation over the exhaust pipes and the fuel lines, you will be OK on that aspect.  I encountered the same difficulties with the dipstick when I ran the Vortech supercharger in my Mach 1.  I ended up still using the stock dipstick location, but fabricating a very short dipstick tube and dipstick, so that I could reach under the supercharger to get it out and check the oil.  I put a bend in the dipstick at the end, so that when it went into the tube it would guide itself past the windage tray.  If that won't work for you and you have to put a tube in the oil pan, just make sure that the tube enters the oil pan at a point higher up than the bottom of the windage tray.  The best way would be to weld a little kickout at the top of the pan, so that the dipstick can clear the pan rail and go in as straight down as possible.

The shorty idea is actually pretty clever...  I may give that some thought.  The Procharger intake plenum is the tricky part (you showed me your solution, I'm coming up with something similar) and it takes up a lot of space in that area.  If I can reach under the blower and still have access to a tiny dipstick, that would be the ticket. 

All good advice as always, gentlemen!

[CV355]

If there’s some room on either side of the sump, a company called Masta Performance makes an add-on dipstick that has a mounting block that attaches to the side of the pan. Similar to what Rory is describing with the stock 4x4 or truck oil pan. Or if a person is handy you could probably fabricate something similar. Here’s a couple pictures I took at the PRI show.

That's exactly what I was thinking as one solution.  Only tricky part there is, as Jay pointed out, it has to be above the windage tray.  Otherwise, the flange might be below oil level and the dipstick won't really measure anything other than "yes, there's oil, how much, we don't know..."

[Rory428]

That aftermarket dipstick mount is almost identical in design to the factory rear sump mount I was talking about. As for oil pans, yes, the road race style "Tee" pans can interfere with headers, that is why I prefer the regular deep sump pans, that don`t have the "wings" out the sides. On 57-59 Ford cars, they can even hit the lower control arms, where they mount to the crossmember.

[gregb]

That's exactly what I was thinking as one solution.  Only tricky part there is, as Jay pointed out, it has to be above the windage tray.  Otherwise, the flange might be below oil level and the dipstick won't really measure anything other than "yes, there's oil, how much, we don't know..."


[/quote]
It shouldn't matter where the thing is mounted.  The fluid level will come up to where the oil in the pan is.  Yes you will have to mark the dipstick itself so it's calibrated to the new position, the factory reading will be off, that's easy enough just add a quart, check, add another, etc.  Boat engines just have the tube mounted to an adapter that goes in the drain plug hole and the stick is calibrated accordingly. 

[My427stang]

Sounds like you have a plan, but if I run a windage tray, Ford, Milodon, or Canton, I always fit the dipstick on the engine stand.  Almost all of then need clearance work for the dipstick, and about 50% of them need clearance for the rear main cap drain.

After the fact, the trick I use on my own Mustang (which I built before I started clearancing) is turn the dipstick 90 degrees, it goes straight in and doesn't hit.  However, as I plan the next version, it'll be fixed

[RustyCrankshaft]

It's isn't fancy "billet" race car stuff, but a cheap and normally readily available option is the cast aluminum model A/B dipstick boss. Bolts to the pan with 3 screws. I've used it on several occasions where I needed to re-locate the dipstick and the pan wasn't set up for it. The re-pops are like 15 bucks.

[CV355]

It's isn't fancy "billet" race car stuff, but a cheap and normally readily available option is the cast aluminum model A/B dipstick boss. Bolts to the pan with 3 screws. I've used it on several occasions where I needed to re-locate the dipstick and the pan wasn't set up for it. The re-pops are like 15 bucks.

Do you have a link to one?  I found a Dorman version for a Ford Powermax but it looked a bit too large to fit the existing pan. 

[70tp]

When I run into a dipstick problem and don’t have all the correct parts, I take a 1/4” pipe coupling and cut the bottom half at a pretty steep angle and weld or braze it to the pan and drill it through. Then use either a tube flare adapter or a bead fitting to hold the tube.   The bead fitting can be drilled through to let the tube stick through into the pan side to help hold the dip stick.   

[RustyCrankshaft]

https://www.macsautoparts.com/dip-stick-tube-boss-ford-flathead-v8-except-60-hp-47-15403-1.html

There is a gasket available as well. There are a couple versions of these but the one linked seems to be widely available still.

[CV355]

When I run into a dipstick problem and don’t have all the correct parts, I take a 1/4” pipe coupling and cut the bottom half at a pretty steep angle and weld or braze it to the pan and drill it through. Then use either a tube flare adapter or a bead fitting to hold the tube.   The bead fitting can be drilled through to let the tube stick through into the pan side to help hold the dip stick.

Haha, that's exactly what I started heading down.  I made an adapter that fits the original dipstick tube port next to the filter adapter, and it runs to a 3/8" tube compression fitting.  My goal was to bend up a tube and run an extended dipstick so I wouldn't have to pull the blower off every time I go to check the oil. 

What I really need to do is fabricate a dipstick on the passenger side of the engine where there are no real estate issues.  For now, I'm just banking on that it's a brand new engine, the oil is as clean as honey, no leaks, and no burning.  We put 5.5qts in (wet).  I'm going to change the oil here soon anyways (approaching 50 miles on the new engine) so I'll always know it's "topped off."