410 vs 428 Power Difference

[frnkeore]

Regarding heavier FE blocks; when I first came on this forum, in Sept of '19, one of my very first questions was "When did the FE change to a thin wall casting", apparently, like others, in the past, I was told that it had ALWAYS been a thin wall casting!!!

At 77, I lived threw the original FE period and I knew that was BS but,  how do you tell the modern FE guys, they are wrong? It's hard but, as time goes on, the truth comes out. One thing I know, for a fact, is that there were NO thin wall, Ford castings, of any sort, until the 1960 Falcon six. FE's before that had a Ford spec, of .170 min cyl wall thickness and recommend max a over bore of .060. The 292 had that same spec. My 4.050 bore 361 Edsel engine must have the same .170 cyl wall thickness spec (.140 @ .060), even with the larger bore. My Edsel, after boring .060, the thinnest major thrust side is .188 and minor is .153. Remember that .170, is min wall.

I can't say what the spec is for the '61 - '62, 352, 390 & 406. I haven't found that yet but, it would make since that it may have changed with the modernization in '63 but, Ford never made a public announcement, to that effect.

Several, older guys on this forum (including me), have posted that they had or new of 1/8" over bore 352's and Ted Wells, a high end FE guy, of the 60/70's, that was foreman at Valley Head Service, has said the earlier FE casting are thicker.

I'm always on the look out for Ford factory drawings and maybe I'll find one with that revision, someday. Until then, I will keep using my sonic test gauge, I would never discourage that, even on a early block.

[JimNolan]

The 410ci I built out of boring the 352ci runs cool. You can't get it to go over 190 degrees on the hottest day using a 180 degree thermostat. My engine building program says it should have 391hp but lets say it just has 360hp. That's 360hp that I drag raced in my 57 as well as drove cross country many times while burning 87 octane fuel and never having a problem out of it. Now the engine is in my 63 Galaxie and is backed up with a Jay Broader C6 and "2.70" Trac Loc differential. (I've quit drag racing) Engine has about 20K miles on it and runs just as good now as it ever did.
My point is, building an engine to get the most out of it depends on what you want to use it for. In my case, I wanted both performance as well as dependability. I'd much rather have 20 less HP than worry about overheating and dependability by boring a motor too far. And, I can't believe Ford forged a different block for the 352 than they did a 390. 

[gdaddy01]

I think this day and age , any fe block that is in good shape , with todays crank options , would work good for street use . 

[410bruce]

Regarding heavier FE blocks; when I first came on this forum, in Sept of '19, one of my very first questions was "When did the FE change to a thin wall casting", apparently, like others, in the past, I was told that it had ALWAYS been a thin wall casting!!!

At 77, I lived threw the original FE period and I knew that was BS but,  how do you tell the modern FE guys, they are wrong? It's hard but, as time goes on, the truth comes out. One thing I know, for a fact, is that there were NO thin wall, Ford castings, of any sort, until the 1960 Falcon six. FE's before that had a Ford spec, of .170 min cyl wall thickness and recommend max a over bore of .060. The 292 had that same spec. My 4.050 bore 361 Edsel engine must have the same .170 cyl wall thickness spec (.140 @ .060), even with the larger bore. My Edsel, after boring .060, the thinnest major thrust side is .188 and minor is .153. Remember that .170, is min wall.

I can't say what the spec is for the '61 - '62, 352, 390 & 406. I haven't found that yet but, it would make since that it may have changed with the modernization in '63 but, Ford never made a public announcement, to that effect.

Several, older guys on this forum (including me), have posted that they had or new of 1/8" over bore 352's and Ted Wells, a high end FE guy, of the 60/70's, that was foreman at Valley Head Service, has said the earlier FE casting are thicker.

I'm always on the look out for Ford factory drawings and maybe I'll find one with that revision, someday. Until then, I will keep using my sonic test gauge, I would never discourage that, even on a early block.

Frank, you have that ebay sonic checker, don't you? What setting (code) are you using to measure the cylinder wall thickness?

[frnkeore]

Richard, the setting is cd10, for gray iron.

Here is the chart, if you need it.

[410bruce]

Richard, the setting is cd10, for gray iron.

Here is the chart, if you need it.

Richard? 
Thank you. That's the one I've been using as well. Just wanted to make sure I was using the correct setting. 

[frnkeore]

Sorry Bruce

I'm getting you coast guys mixed up, I guess

Hows the wind today? I hope it hasn't blown any blocks or heads down the street

[410bruce]

Sorry Bruce

I'm getting you coast guys mixed up, I guess

Hows the wind today? I hope it hasn't blown any blocks or heads down the street

Hey, no problem, Frank. It's easy to get confused at who you're actually speaking to when you reply to so many posts and in different forums. 
It was really windy last night and early today but it tapered off and is calm now.
Fortunately, no blocks or heads blew away. 

[Barry_R]

THe 428 would make more power based on cubic inches plus more power from the larger bore, which unshrouds the valves somewhat.

[JimNolan]

Is it worth it. I punched out the 352 to 4.05" on my 410 engine and my Engine Calculator tells me I've got 391 HP at 9.89 CR. I increased the bore to 4.13" without changing anything else and got 394 HP at 10.2 CR. That's 3HP for a thinner cylinder wall. I realize that my Engine Calculator isn't the same as Dyno results but it errors the same with both bores. I would much rather keep my cylinder wall as thick as I could than have the additional 3HP.

[Gregwill16]

Is it worth it.

There is a reason 352 390 blocks are $200 and 428 blocks are 5x higher. You spend more up front but will get it back, and then some, on the back side.

If it isn't a 428 car originally and you plan to beat on it, then I would also build a stroker 390, if I didn't have a 428