Saga of using a SB Toploader behind a FE engine, plus flat tappet success story.

[PetesPonies]

Small block input being longer on the nose, works perfectly with a truck bellhousing. The truck is deeper. And truck transmissions have the longer input nose as well, even behind the FEs.

[Rory428]

But as I mentioned, the small blocks longer input shaft tip also worked just fine with a shallower depth passenger car bellhousing. At least with my 428 crank, there was plenty of room inside the pilot bushing bore for the tip. Not to mention that both my Jerico and G Force transmissions came with the longer SB tip, and I believe those are not available with a shorter FE tip.  I can not say that every FE crankshaft ever made has the same depth pilot hole, but it would appear that relying on actual measurements on each combination is more reliable than blindly following "old wives tales". 
Kinda like the "you MUST block off the hydraulic lifter feeds when you use solid lifters". On my drag engines I did that, but when I put this smallish solid flat tappet cam with dumb bell lifters into my 59s 428, I checked to ensure the narrow center section did not become exposed at full lift,   and since it wasn`t even close, I just put them in. After 3000 miles, it still has 45 pounds hot idle oil pressure with 10-30 oil, and has 60 psi driving down the road. This is with a high volume, standard pressure Melling oil pump. Also much like I used to "fix" Fords "mistake", by grinding the main bearing oil feed holes to match the holes in the main bearings. After one of my 428 blocks split # 2 and 4 main webs, right thru the elongated oil holes, I stopped doing that, and I have not had a cracked main web since. When I think about some of the "Mandatory" oil passage modifications people did years ago, I have to wonder how many FE blocks were ruined by guys drilling and grinding too much, un necessarally.

[cammerfe]

Some years ago I lost an FE engine on the dyno during the break-in. Tore it apart and very soon thereafter happened to talk to Jim Dove. When I started to tell him about what happened, he stopped me and described the internal carnage I'd found. Then he told me he's had the same experience. He attributed it to the 'drive spud'---the splined, pilot-tipped replacement on a dyno for the trans input shaft. He said that the longer drive spud supposedly for a small-block Ford pushed far enough into the back of the crank as to push the crank forward enough to have created interference in the spacing of the crank, rods, etc. He told me to look at the thrust surface at the back of the center main bearing. Sure enough the flange showed witness marks suggesting front loading.

I also talked to Mose Noland and some others at Triple E. I was universally informed that it's possible, with the wrong combination of parts, and manufacturing tolerance stack-up to have, in fact, the interference spoken of above. It may not always happen, but I believe it's a possible trouble spot and something it makes sense to always look at.

KS

[MeanGene]

Of the ones that are clearing OK, I would bet that they aren't clearing by much. When I was playing with my first 427 in '77, it had my C4AE SPEC block and C4AE-B grooved crank, and when I put the 351W toploader in there (69 Mach1) it seemed to pull up normally to the bell (an RC scattershield out of one of Cantrell's Cobras). Went to turn it, and it was locked up. Backed off the trans bolts just a bit, and it was free. Being young and dumb, I put some 1/8" close tolerance washers between the trans and bell, and went rippin'

[Rory428]

Again, it is always best to check and confirm, but as I mentioned in the first post, on MY 428, with MY car bellhousing, and MY small block Toploader, there was plenty of space between the bottom of the crank hole, and the end of the input shaft tip, over 1/4".

[Phil Brown]

I'm wondering if some of these"small block" toploaders are really small input trans from behind a 390 FE ?. I don't think the 390 cars got large input shaft trans

[Rory428]

I'm wondering if some of these"small block" toploaders are really small input trans from behind a 390 FE ?. I don't think the 390 cars got large input shaft trans

Phil, the 390s did not have the large 1 3/8" input, they had the same 1 1/16" x 10 spline input as the small block transmissions, with the same length splines. The only difference was the 390 input had a shorter tip that fits into the pilot bushing. My Toploader was originally installed in a 1966 289 Fairlane. If the tag is on, AND nothing has been changed over the years, Dave Kees website has a complete list of Toploader 4 speed applications, identified by the HEH or RUG code on the tag.

[Phil Brown]

Not disputing that your trans was originally from a small block car, just that a lot of people think small input =orig small block trans. And that the 390 toploaders could account for a lot of "mine fit fine"
Also like you said no telling what got changed over the years 🙂