Author Topic: BBM head info  (Read 18752 times)

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fryedaddy

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2021, 04:29:02 PM »
even with helicoils on the exhaust you still need to be careful with the bbms.i striped out 2 or 3 holes with a little 4 inch wrench.about the time you think it is snug its about to strip if you tighten just a little too much.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

My427stang

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2021, 09:34:09 AM »
Any wish to comment on what " Yellow Truck " posted ??

...

. Brent, I wish the TFS head had been available when I built my 445. Having said that the BBM piece was very well made. What I'm curious about is the difference in the driving experience between the TFS (with 40 more CFM) and the BBM with a blend job. Where do you notice it in ordinary driving (you know, mild start off a stop light, second gear, then a little time at WOT)?

...

My question is the same except for a 398 or 418 if I may please




Ricky.


The second half of the equation is the port volume, you won't lose anywhere with a TFS if the BBM or iron has an equal or larger port.  Extra flow with the same port volume means a more efficient port, at least until the port is maxed out at high RPM or big cubes and gets too fast. 

I can't believe any of us did the same combo exactly then drove them after a head change,  However, an "almost the same combo" if there is one, between the two links below show the difference in curve between a 295 cfm CJ and a 335 cfm TFS, both very streetable and pump gas

Here is the iron (295 cfm CnC ported CJs, 2.19/170, ported CJ intake)


TFS heads, actually 2 degrees less .050, ported -F PI


Just follow the first 4 lines in the HP and torque columns.  Keep in mind these are 15 inch vacuum, built to sorta sound like a stock CJ.  As we play with different valve events, I think there is still more in them, even with a 235 degree mellow cam.  40+ lbs of torque is significant.

I am not a BBM guy, not against, just haven't used any.  Engine 1 was going to be a BBM build but we decided to go iron.  I would expect that the right BBM would close up the HP gap, but be slightly behind on torque.  Just my gut though, because as delivered an equally priced BBM can't flow what a TFS does, and my thought is that if you make it flow, you need to spend a little port volume which would slow the port down low

Both of the builds are very gentle but when you get a full foot of carb, they breathe deeper than the RPM peak indicates.  Additionally, the cost of the CnC ported CJs were more than the TFS, but engine 1 is in a very rare car and owner wanted it to look bone stock

Here are the builds. 

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=7690.0

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=8111.0

One last comment, what happens on a 397 or 416?  IMHO, the smaller the engine, and or the lower the RPM peak, the more the TFS gap will widen.  Now, if the new BBM port is small high and fast, then it could be the new king.  However, right now, I do not believe that there is a head other than a custom program that will be as small in volume and flow the numbers of the TFS
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

67xr7cat

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2021, 11:08:38 AM »
N/M
« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 08:31:32 PM by 67xr7cat »

blykins

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2021, 11:26:01 AM »
I usually don’t make comments like that unless I have dyno testing to back up my comments. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
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My427stang

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2021, 02:43:53 PM »
Steve, I know you were making a point that everything doesn't have to be Formula 1 car optimized, and even then, no two guys agree, but I just want to make sure you aren't thinking Brent and I are too far apart, because we generally aren't

First, that cam will be a terror in a 427 with TFS and match your use....period, don't lose a bit of sleep over it.  In fact, lash the exhaust .006-.008 tighter if you want to gain a bit of exhaust duration, but regardless I'd expect it to run very strong

Now, what would a custom cam do?  As you refine the build, as in talking about a stroker in one post, or even if you went pure custom with the 427, it could change entirely, and depending on goals, it may not just be peak power, it could be more vacuum and give up power if that was the goal.  End use always matters when talking cams, possibly more than most any other component.  I spend more time on a build to figure out what that "big thing or things" a guy wants an engine to do, and sometimes they don't know

Some custom cams drive more vacuum, some use all the lift, some focus on torque, some focus on pure HP.   As initially said, This is a decent lobe design, Crower is nothing to sneeze at, a custom flat tappet may gain in some areas, cost in others, but this is a pretty good match for your combo.  If I was going custom and staying flat tappet, I might sneak a little more lift out of a lobe, but then you are likely going to have to swap springs.    After a year of playing with TFS, and watching Brent too, I'd likely add some exhaust, but then I would spread centers and add lift too, how much...depends on end use.  You can cheat there too, lash is a significant tuning tool

Additionally, you likely would not find a cam like that on Comp's shelf, Crower (like this one) and Howard's oddly enough tend to have a little better design over the SBC generic

There is no free chicken, and a custom cam like Brent provides matches the entire build and use exactly.  I do custom choices too, when everything is blueprinted carefully and planned ahead of time, it's hard to beat.  That being said, it does support your point "could be that both are right"   



« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 02:46:52 PM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

1968galaxie

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2021, 02:56:58 PM »
Regarding custom camshafts.
Ask any number of FE engine builders and you will get different recommendations for a "custom" camshaft.
Ask Blair, Brent, Barry, Craft, Robert Pond, Scott Foxwell, and other FE builders and you will not get the same "custom" camshaft specs.
Pick the guy you like and don't look back. You will likely never do a back to back camshaft comparison.
Some of the FE builders have learned from experience what is likely to work better. But even that is sometimes a miss when going for a few more HP. Even experts disagree.
In the end if you have unusable power in first, second and perhaps 3rd gear then you made the right choice - regardless if another grind was worth 20 HP more (or perhaps less).

Cheers!!
Hot rodding is fun!

Joe-JDC

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2021, 04:24:44 PM »
Temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, water temperature, oil temperature will change 20 horsepower in a single day.  Seen it happen many times on the dyno with same engine.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

Gregwill16

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2021, 06:49:37 PM »
Greg I sent you a PM on some headers, may even have some heads you'd be interested in for your build.

Sand hauler

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2021, 08:06:35 PM »
With all due respect to everyone here, I'm not nowhere near off the knowledge and experience as the rest of y'all here , it would seem to me in my humble and honest opinion that unless a person is wanting to squeeze every last hp and tq out of a motor, that either the TFS or BBM would be an excellent choice . It really just boils down to availability and how soon a person wants to get a motor together. With all that said if it were me I would go with the BBM'S.
Bobby-   Carlsbad, NM

brettco

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2021, 09:07:16 PM »
 Knowing I left 15hp behind by not waiting on a part would bother me every time I drove my car. Even knowing that may be stupid it would still bother me.

machoneman

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2021, 09:17:09 PM »
Know what you mean but.....

Unless it's a racer where one can track e.t., mph, or elapsed time on a road or oval, one will not miss that 15HP at all. The reason why is that on a cool day, an engine can easily pickup that small percentage of hp merely due to the weather. On a really hot day, even the best tune can lose that hp in a hurry.

Race is not equal to street in most applications.
Bob Maag

1968galaxie

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2021, 09:35:05 PM »
Knowing I left 15hp behind by not waiting on a part would bother me every time I drove my car. Even knowing that may be stupid it would still bother me.

A street car with (even with 275/60 15 drag radials) and a real 500+ HP and 550+ ft lbs of torque will absolutely destroy tires in first and second gear. Street roads are very slippery even with drag radials.
At this power level you will not be able to tell the difference between 15 HP more or less.

e philpott

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2021, 10:30:05 PM »
Knowing I left 15hp behind by not waiting on a part would bother me every time I drove my car. Even knowing that may be stupid it would still bother me.

You’ll need a set of Pro Ports then , they are available too

475fetoploader

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2021, 02:09:14 AM »
Just install Nitrous Oxide.  Then every time you say oh shoot, think we’re down 15 horse, you can grab a handful of kit.  Should break the tires loose too. After you’re done, you can just go back to leaving 15 horse on the table.
1967  Fairlane Tunnel Wedge on Proports.
1975 4x4 461 f.e. 4speed Dual Quads on 38’s
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blykins

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Re: BBM head info
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2021, 03:46:21 AM »
Gotta look at the price as well.

Are you spending the same amount and losing 15-20 hp?  Or are you paying more and losing 15-20 hp?

Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports