Not exactly FE only.. Mustang front alignment issues X3.

[Keith Stevens]

I have had the mustang aligned three times.  The first time the idiot got so heavy-handed he rounded out the lower control arm cam bolts. Needless to say the lower arms were moving.
The second time I took it to a reputable shop recommended by a couple guys with 60's Brand X cars who had success with them.

My 67 has the Arning drop, new upper and lower control arms, strut rod bushings, tie rod ends, 1" lower Global West 635lb springs, perches, and 1/2 Poly spring spacer and Koni shocks.  I had them align the car using the camber locking kit, so I shouldn't have been able to be in a state of negative camber.
Anyone have any guessed? It feathered the inside of the tire, so 1400 miles post alignment and new tires it's going to happen again.

[Cyclone03]

Bare with me....
If all your front end pieces were new,especially the springs you will get a bit of settling.
I’m guessing your seeing negative camber .
What was the front end set to when you had it aligned ?

My go to setting for Mustangs is 0 camber, 3 1/2 deg caster (more if power steering) and 1/8 “ toe in

I have run -1deg camber but tighten the toe up to 1/16” and I have not seen any feathering of tires.

If the front settled that will toe out the tires ,that will chew them up pretty quick.

You can check toe for your self with a tape measure,my tires have a center grove that wakes it easy. I would check that for yourself first then go from there.

[Keith Stevens]

I did forget to mention the Arning/Shelby upper control arm drop on the car.   

[e philpott]

Toe set too much out instead of in will feather edge the inside . Did you get a alignment sheet with your before and after specs ?

[Falcon67]

The Mustang (gone) and the Falcon are (were) set the same - 1" upper arm drop, 2 1/2 degrees caster (2 to 3 is my target), 1/8 toe and as close to zero camber as I can get.  I also do not use the camber bolt setup.  All are replaced with the eccentric lockout.

https://www.globalwest.net/mustang-alignment-problem-solver-kit-loc-out-kit-1967-1968-1969-1970-1971-1972-1973-global-west.html

I haven't had the Falcon race car on an alignment rack in 10 years.

[Keith Stevens]

Yes, there are sheets. I know what toe settings will eat tires in a hurry. What makes no sense is the fact there is clearly quite a bit of negative camber if you look at the car from 20 feet away.  The camber shouldn't have been able to change. That was the purpose of the camber lock-out kit. It doesn't allow for any movement what so ever. I don't remember paying close attention. The lip of the fender just cover the top edge and they are wider than stock and isn't particularly noticeable in part because of the ride height and sitting on an incline with the nose slightly elevated it became obvious.
Strangely enough there didn't seem to be any odd handling characteristics until recently post the third alignment. I noticed it would grab certain road characteristics and pull the car. I had been considering a bump steer kit. I change the oil at 1500 miles on this car. So I caught the feather on the inside at that juncture.

[oldiron.fe]

  caster/camber has to be off a lot to really wear tires -most of the time bad toe in/out wears your tires  -  if way off can wear fast !!     if you are accurate with a tape measure you should keep toe close to avoid tire wear   never had bad wear on tires at 1/16 to 1/8 toe in  but you must be accurate with your measurement  and be sure of all parts are good even new parts can be bad  big pry bar to check for any unwanted movement -good luck -oldiron

[Keith Stevens]

All the parts were nice and tight and torqued to spec with AMK new hardware.
The specifications for the Arning drop car for 1967 is:
+2 degrees caster. 0 degree Camber 1/8" toe in.

[frnkeore]

Strangely enough there didn't seem to be any odd handling characteristics until recently post the third alignment. I noticed it would grab certain road characteristics and pull the car.

This may, well be caused by the offset on your wheels. My old '65 2+2 had this issue, bad! It's the car pictured in my avatar. It has 8.5 wide, American Wheels, with a 1.25, positive offset, giving around a 1.5 scrub radius. It would pull anytime there was a patch or joint, in the road.

This diagram, will help explain it. The scrub radius offset, allows road input to have leverage on the steering. Production cars, usually have a little negative radius, for stability.
 

[frnkeore]

Here is a complete alignment kit, for less than a any alignment, I know about.

First the toe in gauge. It's made of 3/4 sq tubing, 6.5 to 7ft long, plus 2 pieces 16" long and one piece of 1" sq tube, 2" long, to side over the 3/4 tube. Weld a 5/16 nut to it, drill it thur and tap. I welded a little piece of 1/4" round, on the bolt head to make a small T-handle. Note that there is a projection welded, on both sides of the tools upright.

Adjust it to about .5 - 1" wider than the sidewall of the tires. You put projection on the bulge of the sidewall, at approx the center ht. Have someone hold it there or block it up, to that point. Go to the other side and use a scale, to measure to the same point. Note that measurement. Side the tool to the other side of the tire and measure that distance. The difference will be your toe in (or out). On the side wall, I use 1/16, rather than 1/8.

Camber is the easiest to measure. Again, you use the side wall of the tire. You can use just a straight edge or, I use a 24" carpenters square. It's easier for me to see the degree reading, when it's horizontal. The angle finder is magnetic so, it will work, either way. That will give you a accurate camber reading to as close as you can make out the scales divisions.

Next is caster. To get caster, you turn the wheel 20 degrees, in each direction and take a camber reading. You add those two readings together and that is the caster angle.

I first did caster by setting the wheels straight ahead, then marking 20 deg off the sidewall, with a adjustable angle tool like is pictured and chalk marked the angle, on the floor. I then turned the tire, parallel to the mark and took the camber reading, same on the other side. Caster is the least important reading. Caster can be off 1/2 deg and you'll never notice but, if you do your measurements, carefully this way, it will be very accurate.

For about $180 (cheaper used. I got my set for $50, many years ago) you can get a set of turn plates and it will make caster readings easier.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/164159822197?epid=8043760102&hash=item2638b01975:g:C2EAAOSwRTJelI7c

Edit:
Be sure that the surface you use, is actually level and if you use turn plates, that the rear tires are raised to the same height as the plates.
Edit 2:
If you've jacket the car up, after letting it down, you need to roll it, back and forth to settle the supension, back into position.
   

[Cyclone03]

If your lower control arms have stock type bushings the car has to be sitting down with full weight before they are tightened. If you don’t do this the front will be high until the bushing tears. The upper spring perch if stock can also hold the front up. If the alignment guy jacked the front up and didn’t know to settle the suspension ,(sometimes happens when alignment heads are in stalled) then when you drive a bit the alignment will be wrong.

[Keith Stevens]

I am running 17 X 7 instead of the factory 10 spoke 15 X 7 on the front. The offset is the same as the factory 10 spoke alloy. Sadly I have offset sizes. The back is 17 X 8 with a 255-45-17, The front is 235-45-17. The side wall profile isn't that low. I hate the older cars with rubber-band sidewalls. The overall tire height is only about an inch less than the original speedway E70-15.
I put it up on jack stands tonight. I'm going to go over it well in the morning. 
I'll let you all know what I find if anything out of place. I appreciate the responses.

The alignment with the cam locks was 379.00. In my opinion rediculous.

[Cyclone03]

Nothing wrong with your tire size choice. I’m running 235/45 17 front and an 8” wheel and 255/45 17 rear on 17x9.5’s.

I’m sorry you have fallen in old car hell when trying to have work done in the modern world.

[oldiron.fe]

 2xfrnkeore  --will add my best toe meas. jack ea. tire up white spray paint rotate /spin tire  coat center of tire /dry spin tire scribe clean /clear groove in paint -- repeat dry good roll car back/forward a few feet to settle    put pipe on stands fasten heavy wire w/pointed end to tire     groove in paint  check front/back  adj. roll /repeat  done carefully O  error  no/lights/computer etc.    old school string car with jack stands etc. nascar  style good for 200mph good tire wear!!  sidewall can have raised letters etc   stands with pointer@ paint scribe O error for toe !!!            oldiron.fe      old school                                                                                                                                                                                     

[oldiron.fe]

      p.s.  pull hub cap  grease cap put angle gage on clean hub end   --turn  spindle nut w/sides verticle  w/good  gage magnet  should  best  read   --min  chance to read meas. error   or sidewall change raised letters etc.

[Bolted to Floor]

I guess I've had a little better luck. Everything was new under the frontend of the car, including Eaton springs. No arning drop. I'm on my fourth alignment with close to 10K on the car. Number 1 got the car going, #2 was after some wandering at speed from #1 and the rear spring swap. #3 came with the addition of the wheel side shock tower brace from Opentracker and new roller spring perches. The other spring perches were starting to clunk with 6000 miles. Same shop did the first three.

After close to 3000 miles, #4 came about due to an increased sense of wander and the car tracking with lines in the concrete or following the rutted path on a well used asphalt surface. It did come with some inner tire wear as well.  Reminded me of my old truck with bias ply tires. The next shop found the tires toe'd out. They didn't find anything loose under the front end. It still doesn't drive like I think it should, but it was better than what it was and we drove to the Mustang Steve Bash in Rockwall a couple of weeks ago. 

Neither shop was interested in using spec's from Opentrackers website. It was always a variance of the factory spec with a let's see how it drives follow up. I never took the time for a follow up visit in a reasonable time frame.

I never wanted to try my own alignments due to time and tools, but I have spent enough money to buy some decent tools to do the job. I might have to try my hand at it. At least I could make changes to see how it improves or gets worse as time allows.

[Keith Stevens]

I know Steve. I drove over to his house. He did the roller bearing pedal conversion on my car. I didn't think to contact him about alignment. I think you hit on a key point. The tech ignored the provided information and used the specs the machine provided. It's going to cost them another 250.00 worth of front tires. It's  been raining too much here in Southlake so It will have to wait until the weather is suitable and I am home for more than a day and a half.

[Cyclone03]

I hate hearing stuff like this,if I was close I would align your car....

[Keith Stevens]

Thank you, Lance. That is very generous of you. This kind of crap makes a restoration frustrating and hard to just enjoy. Nothing worse than doing the same job over and over.
I am dreading the fall job that has to be done. I have to pull the engine to have inserts put into the rocker feed gallery.  I'm sick of flushing the radiator every couple months.
I'll wait until my fall vacation. 

[Cyclone03]

If my FE gets that internal leak I would block those feeds off completely and go with push rod oiling.
I’m almost 100% blocked now running a hydraulic roller and Brent’s non adjustable rockers.

It’s said that alignment techs are forced to go by 55 year old bias ply tire alignment settings due to liability worry’s .

The number is 0- +1/2 camber, +3-4 castor (both the same) 1/8 toe in. Works great on street driven Mustangs.

[jmlay]

While not for a classic I have used Thomason Tire in McKinney. I spoke with the alignment guy, Joe, about aligning my Mustang when ever I get it back on the road. He is an old school guy and enjoys working on the classics. Might be an option worth trying out.

[Keith Stevens]

I am in Southlake/Colleyville area but it might be worth the trip. Sadly I won't do it via the freeway. I will take a look at what it takes to get there.

[jmlay]

Give them a call first to make sure he is still there.

[badd68]

I always tell people to go to Hunter's website www.hunter.com. Then use the "contact Hunter" feature to find local reps, they will know what shops they would recommend to work on old cars.

fwiw Mike