C4 Overhaul

[garyv]

Have a C4 that I'd like to overhaul to use maybe behind a 351 C or 302.  Not going to be a race application just something stout
that will hold up to 400 plus hp/tq that I can hammer on if I want.  From what I can determine this one looks like it was made in 1978. Has the 26/24 spline shaft and push in modulator valve. Band adjustment bolt is coarse thread so I'm sure it's not a C5 and it's a case fill.  Has a bell that doesn't match up to anything in my garage such as 302, Cleveland, 351M. Looks like it was made for a lock up torque converter because its pretty big. I can get a different bell so that's not an issue
 
There are a lot of kits out there and I see some for around $200 with all the Alto red plates and Kolene coated steels etc.  Is this the type
of kit I need?  Transparts warehouse has a kit which is similar to the global trans kit and cheaper.
I have never rebuilt an automatic so this will be a first.  Done plenty of standards without any issues.
Haven't torn it down yet just trying to get an ideal of what you guys use when you build these.

Appreciate some input.

garyv

[e philpott]

https://broaderperformance.com/product-category/transmission-parts/ford-c4-transmission-parts/

Give Jay a call at Broader and leave a message for a call back and ask him what you need , if you deal with a person like Jay and have trouble he can walk you through it , C4's are relative easy to build and a good stock over haul with a Trans Go shift kit would probably be fine for 400 hp , The C4's I've been building are usually 600 ish HP and I install the higher capacity drums and pistons to allow extra friction plates and use a hardened 300m input shaft along with a manual VB

[gt350hr]

   "I" use a kevlar band because the "red" lined bands don't hold up "for me". I also use Raybestos "blue" frictions. Winters rev manual VB , 24 spline input , never broken one in 47 years of using them.

[Falcon67]

X2 Broader.

With his bands and Alto clutches, 400 HP isn't a big deal.  With some minor mods/upgrades, 500+ isn't a big deal.  Use good parts, pay attention to assembly and clearances, air test your clutch packs before install and it'll work good. 

I run a C4 with roller parts from old Art Carr/Torco, Broader bands and clutch parts, including one his old "DIY" reverse manual valve body conversions.  It'll handle 500+ easy.  Runs behind a 4800 stall converter, 475 HP 351C and I haven't had to look inside the thing in 10 years.  Air shifted, very consistent. 

My web site as some outdated links, (sorry - will fix!) but might provide some clues. 
http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod/trans.html

Also - Review the Monster C4 thread at Ford Muscle.

[garyv]

Appreciate all the responses.  I have read the Monster C4 stuff and it has been helpful.
I pulled the bell off today and it was stuck to the pump so it all came out together.  One thing that concerns me is the stator has a lot
of rust where it was left sitting outside before I got it.  What I can see inside so far looks ok.  I may need a rebuilt pump or at least a new stator if this one doesn't clean up.  I don't know what is acceptable as far as the outer end of the stator as far as any pitting etc.  Maybe you guy know.

garyv

[Blueoval77]

Gary could you post a pic of that bell ?If its not matching up to any of your small blocks I am interested in what it is.

[garyv]

The bell housing has a casting number of C4AP-7976-A which from what is the early 64 5 bolt bell, 160 tooth flexplate, 2 bolt starter
221,260 and 289's.  I found this info in an article in Mustang 360 I had saved and it lists all the C4 bellhousings and casting numbers. This is a late 70's transmission so someone has swapped the transmission for the car.
Jay at Broader transmission has one on his site listed for sale for $450 so they must be rare.

garyv

[Blueoval77]

Yep they are getting hard to find . I was wondering if it was one of the Unicorn (Fabled) 385 to C4 bells. I have heard about that for 40 years but never actually seen one other than aftermarket pieces...

[thatdarncat]

Yep they are getting hard to find . I was wondering if it was one of the Unicorn (Fabled) 385 to C4 bells. I have heard about that for 40 years but never actually seen one other than aftermarket pieces...

The C4 bellhousing you’re talking about were used with the 351M/C4, not specifically for a 385 series, just happens to have the same bolt pattern. Casting number is D5OP-7976-BA. They’re not too hard to find, there are usually at least a couple on eBay. I found one for one of my projects at the local U-Pull a couple years ago, was in a ‘77 Cougar.

eBay link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-79-Ford-F250-351M-460-Pick-Up-Truck-Alum-C4-C5-Bell-Housing-D5OP-7976-BA/124526456005?hash=item1cfe5aecc5:g:vSAAAOSwFsdf~1Cs

[Blueoval77]

All the junk I have worked on and pulled apart over the years I have never come acrost one of them. Perhaps because I always avoided the 351/400 Ms

[Falcon67]

I have two, one happens to be missing a locating ear but that could be welded up and re-drilled.  Found typically in 351M cars in 78,79 like T-birds and such.  IIRC the Trans Code on the data plate is an X, but it's been a while so I may be off.  They work because the 351M/400s use the same bell pattern as the 385 series engines.  They are case bolt (not pump bolt) units with pan fill transmissions.