Intake manifold issues (Oil pooling on valves)

[jholmes217]

Update:

I took my Blue Thunder 4v intake manifold off today.  Took it off for 3 reasons.  1.  I has an oil leak at the back China Wall.  2.  I kept getting a cloud of smoke at start up, and a little smoke after the start, but not as much.  3.  I have a medium riser 8v intake manifold to put on now, and have always liked the look of those.  This is the third time I've had this Blue Thunder off.  Other times for the same 1st two reasons.  Since then. I've found out I should have bent down the tabs on the head gasket.
Here's some background on the engine.  428 block with original Cobra Jet heads.  Engine rebuild and valve job done 2 years ago, with less than 750 miles on the engine.  Heads have Pops rockers and end stands, new shafts, with Holley size 70 jets as oil restrictions.  Anyway, after taking the intake manifold off, I noticed I have small puddles of oil sitting on top of the intake valves.  Last time I put the intake on, I used "The Right Stuff," so it was a little difficult to get the intake to break free, and messed up the gaskets when it did finally come off.  Gaskets were blue Fel-Pro with the ridge around the ports, not the Print O Seals.

So what do you think was the cause of the oil puddles on the valves was the intake hitting the head gasket tabs and not sealing?  This time around I will bend down the head gasket tabs before putting on the new intake manifold.  Should I use smaller Holley jets?  Could the Holley size 70 jets be too big?

[Rory428]

I don`t have a Blue Thunder intake manifold, but I just finished up on the 428 CJ for my 59 project, and had a similar experience with my Edelbrock Performer RPM intake. I used the same stiff blue FelPro intake gaskets, and 1020 head gaskets, and when I test fitted the Performer RPM, I could see that the intake was sitting too high, the lower section of the intake was resting on the exposed area of the head gaskets that stick out between block and heads into the lifter valley. I just took a hammer, and carefully bent the edges of the head gaskets down, over the top edge of the valley tray. Doing this allowed the manifold to sit down lower, and allowed a thinner bead of sealer to be used  on the China walls.  Last Thursday we did the 1/2 hour cam break in process, and then made 6 dyno pulls, and the intake was dry everywhere, with no smoke, so I have to assume the intake is sealed up properly.

[blykins]

Look and see where the trail leads.   If the ports are greasy/oily, most likely it's coming from upwind of the port....intake manifold gasket, PCV valve, etc.  If the valve stem is oily too, there's a good chance it's coming down the guide, from wear or from bad seals. 

[jholmes217]

Look and see where the trail leads.   If the ports are greasy/oily, most likely it's coming from upwind of the port....intake manifold gasket, PCV valve, etc.  If the valve stem is oily too, there's a good chance it's coming down the guide, from wear or from bad seals.

I'll check that after work Brent.  All 8 spark plugs are oily, but still fire (NGK V-Power.)

[jholmes217]

Look and see where the trail leads.   If the ports are greasy/oily, most likely it's coming from upwind of the port....intake manifold gasket, PCV valve, etc.  If the valve stem is oily too, there's a good chance it's coming down the guide, from wear or from bad seals.

I'll check that after work Brent.  All 8 spark plugs are oily, but still fire (NGK V-Power.)

Valve stems seem dry Brent, and the floor of the ports is discolored, and a little oily.  Would the oil in the ports (iron heads) have mostly cooked off after parking the car?

[jholmes217]

I think I'm going to try this:
1.  Using compressed air and rags, get as much oil as possible off the valves
2.  Put the rockers and push rods back on, but not the intake.
3.  Go through the procedure of adjusting the rockers, and ending with #1 at TDC ready to drop in the distributor.
4.  Since going through step 3 will cause the oil pump to pump oil in the heads, see if I can tell if any oil is getting on the valves, and where it is coming from.  I can do this because the intake isn't on.
5.  If no traces of oil are on the valves, then carefully take the rocker assemblies off by backing off the bolts until all are finger loose, then remove.
6.  Put on the intake manifold and mount everything back up.
7.  Fire it up and see if it still smokes (granted it will probably smoke for a while until the oil still in the chamber and exhaust burns off.

How does this sound?   

[machoneman]

Another 'way' would be to mike the old intake gaskets if you retained them. Measuring (only) the crushed or imprinted areas at the gasket top (v-cover side) and comparing same to the bottom (valley side) should show even thickness. Often, as you already mentioned, those OEM type head gasket tabs hang up the intake and cause a valley side vacuum leak w/oil. In this case, the intake gasket didn't seal on the valley side, hence a small imprint.

Your plan is ambitious but I don't think all the work is worth it.

I'd also check that the intake casting itself, around the lower edge of the ports isn't interfering with a good seal as sometimes a touch of grinding is needed for clearance. Last, I'd plop the intake on w/o the China wall end gaskets and then look at the intake-to-head alignment head-on from the front and the back (use a mirror). Ignore the China wall horizontal clearance, as long as there is a gap.

The gap between the two, the head and intake, should be, by eye, parallel and not toed-in or out from top to bottom. Otherwise some intake machining is needed to square things up.   

If that's all good, I'd slap it all back together.

Btw, do you run a PCV valve? Is it shielded on the v-cover side from hot oil splash?
   

[jholmes217]

I am running a PCV valve, and my valve covers are the tall Blue Thunder "Cobra 428" cover with baffles.

[machoneman]

Then take it off or tape it off for a test after it's all running again and hopefully the smokestacks go away.

Even with baffles, I do wonder if oil splash is getting sucked into the intake. See, most often an intake leak will be on one side (pass or drivers) or only a few cylinders. Seems your oiling all eight, hence it could be the PCV is nonetheless sucking in oil.

I had the same issue, to a lesser degree, on my hot 351W in my '70 Mach 1. I added a "Chore Boy" stainless steel sink scrubbing pad to the area above the baffle to block oil mist. Cheap and it worked.     

http://choreboyscrubbers.com/chore-boy-products/stainless-steel-scrubbers

[jholmes217]

Then take it off or tape it off for a test after it's all running again and hopefully the smokestacks go away.

Even with baffles, I do wonder if oil splash is getting sucked into the intake. See, most often an intake leak will be on one side (pass or drivers) or only a few cylinders. Seems your oiling all eight, hence it could be the PCV is nonetheless sucking in oil.

I had the same issue, to a lesser degree, on my hot 351W in my '70 Mach 1. I added a "Chore Boy" stainless steel sink scrubbing pad to the area above the baffle to block oil mist. Cheap and it worked.     

http://choreboyscrubbers.com/chore-boy-products/stainless-steel-scrubbers

I have one of these I could try http://www.jegs.com/i/Trans-Dapt/969/4999/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710626894&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=44693592161&CATCI=pla-224842655351&CATARGETID=230006180039217921&cadevice=c&gclid=CPLjh9W50dMCFQ1rfgodoIkGAA
 or I could take the elbow out of a 428 CJ breather and put the PCV valve in that. 

[machoneman]

Either could work but that chrome breather IIRC is open at the bottom, hence no direct shielding action. The idea with some SS steel wool kind of material is to put a porous blocker right in front of the PCV valve's valve cover side opening.

Hey, this may not be your pooling problem yet work to eliminate this as a possibility is cheap and worthwhile IMO.