Author Topic: Rod journal Dia.  (Read 4847 times)

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fekbmax

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Rod journal Dia.
« on: June 14, 2016, 03:08:41 PM »
So, I just swapped a set of SBF crane gold roller rockers and a stud girdle kit that have been on the shelf for atleast 15 years for a new pro power/speed master steel crank. It's a 4.25 stroke but has standard FE rod journal sizes. I'm going to go make the trade friday on my way up to buds Creek for the IHRA nationals.  Now I know this is junk to most of you guys but hey' it's essentially free to me and atleast its Fe and something that may get used eventually. My question is how difficult is it to get 6.700 rods with the Ford rod journal size ? Would it be safe to take the journals down to 2.200 or would it be best to just leave it be ?
My plans are to sometime down the road build a stroked 390, put a 6/71 on it and drop it in a back haved, roll caged 72 Ford maverick (that's just been setting) street/strip car and have some fun with it.
Keith.  KB MAX Racing.

HolmanMoodyStroppeGang

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Re: Rod journal Dia.
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2016, 11:48:52 PM »
Nice question and I feel bad that you are all alone here bud..............

i did you a long essay, the system crashed and it vanished....ugh

Here is a link I share with some new guys who email me, for thinking out hard parts a bit...found the earmark for ya

Here is my draft for fun pal

Nice post and cogent questions for me.  You are, let's get the facts straight, getting a 1/2 inch arm?   We can that a 1/2 inch arm based on the 390-427 stroke being 3.78 on the stroke, so add about a 1/2 inch, and we get a big Daddy 4 1.4 arm,,,,,you can make a BUNCH of power with a blower and a long stroked arm like that

Ford Racing Races FEs on gas, blown gas, injected Alky, Blown Alky, Injected nitro, and blown fuel.

We usually used the special, NASCAR, SK crank that has the wider rods.  2 FE rods are about 875 in combined width, 2 SK rods, I posted some, are about 1 inch wide

The hot tip then, and now was to turn the rod throws to the 392 HEMO Dodge size,

LOL     Hemo, I gotta always bang on the Doge boys if we are on a FE site, but I have also raced 392 and 426s since the 60s, the car owner, and customer, make these calls, so does the class and so on

Your question asked about 2,200.   That is the Big Block Chevy size. It is fine on gas, pump gas, going real fast on gas, and up the ladder.....the line is drawn largely for us, by what rod we need.

The 392 is 2.375    or 2 and 3/8ths, just like a 426 Dodge, or 440 Dodge..

The line for us is when a stock rod will fail, then a carillo, crower or similar rod is proper,,,like for a Winston Cup level deal, a boat, where a lot of time at hig RPM is needed, as is a long long cycle life,,,We used Carillos in many fast off shore race boats, some Salt Flat cars,,,,and many very stout high compression injected engines

Not sure what the goal is, but a lot of mills, change over to aluminum rods at a point that makes power, lives better and goes faster

Contrary to old myths,,,quality aluminum rods have been tested in shop trucks, towing, call Bill Miller for example, and by simply adding some quench clearance, the race aluminum rods lived great, in brand new Chevy and Dodge trucks, towing, for over 80,000 miles and counting.

40000 years ago, an aluminum rod was deemed an explosion waiting to happen if used in an engine that had to run a long time, and get hot and cold a lot, and go the distance

Many of us disagreed, because around here, a lot of real fast door slammers, many with NO2, and huge cubes, got away with rumbling a real fast car around town, to and from these huge Street races we have had forever

If you do all a 6-71, we gotta know how fast she is gonna go?

A pump gas, non stripped, 6, on the street, with low static compression and a typical blower cam, good cooling, and pump gas, may be super safe, if a 454 for example...at 6 oover   or 6% over driven...to 12    even.....the amount of total advance, and a nice low compression ratio, is a help.

If you decide to get serious, say   8.5 to one, BMS< VENOLIA, BRC,or similar race aluminum rods, run it injected on alcohol and run her like an A GAS car....a 2300 pound car can make a ton of passes, safely, and run low 8s easy.   Check out cars like    The Pisano Matsubara car, Bones Baloughs 33 Willys, many examples...

Look at the legend of the MALCO GASSER?   Now that was the fastest A Gasser around, and based on a 427 SOHC with a pruned 6 (Milled case around a nice 6-71). George won with a lot of FORD parts, and your nice factory 427 cranks....dont recall him stroking his SOHCS, you had to add weigh....I can ask

Here is a tagged piece I have on one system for helping friends who email me questions. It is pretty good, misses some things, but OK

Study this and maybe it can help you pal

http://diyford.com/ultimate-ford-fe-engine-crankshaft-guide/

I think that you have a whole lot of fast, fun, FE time over the horizon....bet many cats here can help ya...

You long rod can be ordered, we have them in a Pro Stock Style 485 SOHC. Call CROWER, CARILLO, SCAT and ask the amigos here,,,,see them used.  Yout stock FE rod is 6.488-90 or compared to a old Fat Rat Big Block chevy at 6.185. We had the long rod advantage on the Big Chevy guys from the start...   Those 454 boys often needed at least a 250 long rod or 400 long rod to be real fast.  We didn't. Not so sure you need the long rod, maybe exlain your thinking or goal

Sounds fun man

Good luck

I vote for the blower,,,,,you can turn the boost up or down, and dial in a bunch of power just by changing pulleys, and adding fuel,,,ala jets, pills and nozzles...or with a lap top

Last thing if you go blown,,,,,a cast import stroker is a nice piece for the street, and some fast high compression builds.  But a true billet, from CROWER, VELASCO, SONNY BRYANT, SCAT and others, is a lot stronger, and will live much longer, in a sustained, hard pounding blown car...

You get what you pay for when you invest in hard parts quite often,,,

An aluminum rod has a pinned insert, to lessen the abilty to spin a rod bearing and ruin it and maybe the rod throw.

A Carillo is so tough, injected alky Sprint Car engines, winged warriors, run all season on a set, then they get new bolts, resized, x rayed, magnafluxed and sent back for another season.....

Stell race rods come in weights....very light, for qualifying engines some times, drags,,,,and heavier and heavier, for more and more brutal races.

Aluminum is a huge asset when you start force feeding her to a race tune level

The old AFX cars, and the early FE powered Pro Stocks, like Dyno Dons Cammer Mavericks, ran standard length forged aluminum rods, from Mickey Thompson on the 392 journal.  HOWARD rods were also used in earlier rails, drgatsres and alterds.

The legendary, and awesome, Tommy Grove,,,,my pal...who ran his dominant, match race  winning Nitro Mustang Funny car out there, for many years....ran Mickey Thompson aluminum rods with no failures, and over 9,000 RPM passs after pass. He had the stock FE length, the 392 rod size, widen cheeks, which you may end up wanting      the journal gets widened to around 1.000    ++

Using the 2.200 rat rod size is real nice and popular in about the last 20 some years.  Used a lot on the import cranks, and many nice 445s and stroked 428s, 427s, often in street trim, or in hot street settings, and for bigger numbers too, the 1000 horsepower club.   Dennis Kings fast Fairlane, had smaller diameter rods, and long rods,,,,,so does Larry Knapps AFX Pro Stock 66 stang,,,,2,200 and 6.700 Pro Stock Rods from Motor City    right rods...

Have fun man

I like blown FEs a lot. At Holman Moddy Stroppe we used to say, when looking for max performance,,,,if all else fails,,,,put a blower on it

Many old guys saw the potential when FORD sold a few Paxton blown 312 T Birds in 1957.   What a game changer. These Hot Rods  killed the competition......Ford style,,especially when you sped up that centrifugal blower with a smaller driven, upstairs pulley !!

I wish you all the best of luck

I sure wish a bunch of other real real talented guys here could just type up any or all thoughts about your plans, and dreams,,,by sharing their combos....

You can get a better snawer by narrowing the question, and by setting a clear goal,,,race, street strip, full race,,,,,cruising then street racing,,,a better chance of evading arrest    HAHAHAA  Have fun !

You use a 425 arm, in a 4.25 bore, you gotsa 482,,, so think about bitchin heads too, or ok heads and a supercharger

« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 11:59:03 PM by HolmanMoodyStroppeGang »

blykins

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Re: Rod journal Dia.
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2016, 04:56:51 AM »
Basically your options are to buy a custom rod with a 6.700" length and an FE journal diameter, or to grind the crank.  The journal width is what's going to nail you though, because the journal has to be turned down to 2.200" and also widened. 

I would leave it be, or swap it for something else......you know Speedmaster's reputation.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
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jayb

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Re: Rod journal Dia.
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2016, 08:03:33 AM »
Keith, why can't you just use a stock FE rod and get pistons to match? If you're going with a blower you will probably need custom pistons anyway...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

HolmanMoodyStroppeGang

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Re: Rod journal Dia.
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2016, 08:58:35 AM »
I had the same thoughts Jay....he can do so much on a FE rods journal as designed, and later, turn the throws if he gets a blower.

I also wondered, the good medium risers blower intakes are hard to find. Do you have an intake?

I looked about 2 years for one, finally found a few.

The Blue Thunder is a great piece, they are out of production for many years, I have 1 brand new, worth around 2500

I hope he finds one and the real deal old Holman Moody ones we ran, they are very hard to find too

I hope he looks close too.  When you do the adaptor plate deal, like a BDS, and run a dual quad intake, and a flat plate,,,,that is OK, not the fastest choice sometimes, but a sure path to frying the tires big time

I always choose a dedicated blower intake first, if we plan to race mostly

If it is hot street, and light drag racing, a adaptor intake is OK...

My thing is, having room to use port nozzles, and a safe way to use the burst panels, or pop off springs

So for the poster, if you plan on a race gas, blown gas, 1200-1300 1400 HP FE, figure out the pop off too

basic deal is, front pop off intakes, or rear pop off

The location usually relates to if it is dragster style, funny car style, fuel altered style, etc

If we are not in a max effort setting,,,,no pop off is fine as long as you are OK, maybe hurting the intake, if all heack breaks loose some day

I like any plan that involves an FE and a Supercharger or Turbo

If this does happen, email us if we can help

Find a Magneto and fuel system, blower drive, gear drive,front cover and dragster pan while you design this mill. Get a real strong block and crank too

Have fun

fekbmax

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Re: Rod journal Dia.
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2016, 09:01:27 AM »
I think that's going to be pretty much the plan. I was just over thinking. Just kinda wondered about them making a stroker crank with the standard rod journals so the stroker rods couldn't be used. But I guess we are talking about speed master. I know they do make the 2.200 but this isn't one.
Keith.  KB MAX Racing.

fekbmax

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Re: Rod journal Dia.
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2016, 08:15:02 PM »
Don't haveta worry about the crank anymore. Sold it today at the Ford fun race and swap meet at VMP. Was happy with what I got, buyer was happy and knew exactly what it was so all's good.
Keith.  KB MAX Racing.

My427stang

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Re: Rod journal Dia.
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2016, 11:08:51 PM »
Keith, why can't you just use a stock FE rod and get pistons to match? If you're going with a blower you will probably need custom pistons anyway...

I'd guess it'd be pretty tight for skirt to counterweight clearance with .21 less rod and a 4.25 arm no?
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

jayb

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Re: Rod journal Dia.
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2016, 09:12:51 AM »
Depends on the pistons.  I have clearance in my SOHC with a 4.6" stroke and a 6.700" rod, which should be a worse situation...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

fekbmax

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Re: Rod journal Dia.
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2016, 10:46:05 AM »
Any 390 stroker kits with the 4.375 arm yet or still custom?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 06:17:45 AM by fekbmax »
Keith.  KB MAX Racing.

blykins

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Re: Rod journal Dia.
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2016, 11:17:21 AM »
Custom piston required.....no big deal though, easy to get.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
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My427stang

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Re: Rod journal Dia.
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2016, 12:05:23 PM »
How short will that piston get?

Of course I am a little more conservative than most, but seems like pulling another 1/4 inch off the bottom of a piston that is already short (FE stroker pistons for a 6.70 rod) would make for a real short skirt
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

blykins

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Re: Rod journal Dia.
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2016, 05:25:43 AM »
I have my pistons made for a 1.262" compression height, based off of a 10.150" deck, 4.375" stroke, and a 6.700" connecting rod.  1.5/1.5/3mm ring pack. 

Most of your 445/482 pistons are around 1.325" compression height.   Not much difference.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports