Author Topic: Compression ratios Standard vs DCR as compared to RPM  (Read 2294 times)

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FERoadster

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Compression ratios Standard vs DCR as compared to RPM
« on: April 28, 2016, 08:22:25 PM »
I realize what the normal "standard" compression ratio is but get confused when trying to figure out quench and DCR. 
So help me out here.
Quench is the volume left with the piston at full compression and both valves closed?
DCR is a function of the lobe separation and the compression ratio? The more overlap (both valves open) affects the DCR. So 108 lobe sep. lowers the DCR as compared to 112.

Now my question gets confusing, at least to me.
 Because gas is compressible it takes some time to compress. To me it seems that at 1000rpm more compression would be bled off as compared to 6000rpm.
Does DCR change with RPM for the same lobe separation cam? If so at what rpm is it calculated?

Richard >>> FERoadster

My427stang

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Re: Compression ratios Standard vs DCR as compared to RPM
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2016, 09:39:41 PM »
1. Quench distance as we discuss it, is the distance between the quench pad on the piston and the quench pad on the head, when the engine is assembled.  Others call it squish distance, which might be more accurate, as the piston comes to TDC, the tighter that distance, the more it squishes everything into the chamber for a better burn and less area for an uncontrolled flame front to start

2. DCR has nothing to do with LSA or overlap.  Remember, if you had overlap during compression, air would come out both the exhaust and the intake.  Overlap occurs at the end of exhaust stroke and the beginning of intake stroke.     Now, thinking of it that way, cams NEVER bleed off compression, there is no point where the valve dumps cylinder pressure.....that would cause a backfire through the intake or pop out the exhaust. 

DCR uses intake closing point for it's calculations, as well as compression numbers and rod length.  It estimates the compression ratio based on volume in the cylinder at the point the intake valve closes as compared to the volume when it is at TDC.  Essentially, you cannot build compression when the valve is open, so the piston is traveling upwards not building compression, at the point the intake closes, that's where it starts.  So DCR is "intake valve closing point adjusted" compression ratio

What a later intake valve closing point does is prevent the piston from making compression in the first place at the bottom of the stroke.  THAT's what DCR is all about. That's why DCR is lower than SCR.  Now, is it exact math?  No because although it's called dynamic, it really isn't dynamic, it's just SCR adjusted for cam events.
 
3. So, you bring up some good points though.  DCR is calculated by mechanical points as a method of comparison.  The valve closes at a certain point as the piston is going upwards, that point, other than some slight stretching / tolerance shifting, etc is the same at any RPM. 

HOWEVER, the reason you cannot merely use DCR to pick cam and compression is because there are times when a cylinder fills more than what mechanically is possible.  It's called supercharging effect, and it shows as greater than 100% VE (and even if not over 100% in a less efficent engine, its an increase in VE at some different RPM)  THAT happens due to a combination of effects such as header tube design, overlap, intake design, piston design, port efficiency, etc.  At those points, which happen at different RPM depending on the build, the engine actually fills the cylinder more than DCR explains, and even more than SCR would too.  So as you can see, haters of DCR, should also be haters of SCR discussion, because the effects in a running engine are the same, they are just static estimates

So, in the end, DCR is a good estimator when combined with other tools that the builder is familiar with.  Also, it is also important to use the SAME estimating tool every time so you can start seeing some trending as well as the most important point... EVERYTHING has to be measured  Once one DCR variable (or SCR for that matter) is estimated, the results are meaningless for comparison

Hope that helps
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 07:13:00 AM by My427stang »
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Falcon67

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Re: Compression ratios Standard vs DCR as compared to RPM
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2016, 09:00:38 AM »
Other comments - any deck clearance  (quench) under .040 with steel rods or .060 with aluminum rods is pushing it.

Good discussion from 427 on DCR.  It's one of the indicators you can use, but it has to be considered with the whole package.  It's a fair sorta indicator of octane tolerance, but it's not absolute.  Meaning, there's no chart to consult that if your DCR is 7.5 and CR is 10.5 you can run XX octane and be safe.