Budget Build

[Riskit1234]

Hello... First time caller, Long time listener...

Looking for help on my 390 build please.  I have a 1973 F250 2wd that I bought last year from the original owner who has had it in storage since 81.  It has 46,000 on it and other then the paint is in as new condition.  I have a few toys but I have fallen in love with this little truck.  The truck has the stock (EVERYTHING) 360 / 3 speed (on the tree) dana 60 non-posi (3:73).  Other then a bad manifold leak its perfect.
 http://vid1191.photobucket.com/albums/z468/RiskIt2/IMG_3735.mp4
(sorry bad video - don't get dizzy)

My original plan was to swap out a 390 crank and do a light build. I found a complete 390 out of a 63 T-bird that the owner wanted gone for $200.  I grabbed the motor and tranny and figured I'd just build this motor and drop it in so I wouldn't have down time. 
http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z468/RiskIt2/IMG_0044.jpg

To find out about the motor I did a search and found this place... Like so many posts I've read I got sucked in.  Plans to stroke it etc soon started.  Anyway I had a budget set at 9,000 for the motor and truck.  I figured about 7 for the motor.  Problem is... My tax bill came in this weekends mail.  I just lost 5 to tax man..

So I'm asking you all for some down to earth help.  I have a tight budget of 4,000 and maybe a bit more if its worth it.  The motor is apart and going to the shop this week.  At this point I can't build the idea I really wanted so I have to come down to reality.  I LOVE driving this little truck and that is #1 on my list.  I'm listing the parts I have and asking for help.  Id love to make the truck as strong a runner as I can on that budget and maybe later add to it as funds open up.

Parts on hand:
C1AE  390 Motor (69,000 mi on car - motor has had someone in it already) Will spec at machine shop after checking block
http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z468/RiskIt2/IMG_0247.jpg
Same C1AE (60156) heads
Ed RPM intake
New HV oil pump
Ed  HV water pump
ARP head studs / bolts (all but rod's)
New Holley 650 ElecChoke
USED Pertronix FlameThrower non-vac, New FlameIII coil
New Headers
I also have at least one set of all gaskets needed.

When the idea to build a stroker was in motion I was going to switch the tranny and rear.  I really like the fun of the 3 on the tree so its staying and i figure a truetrack out back will be fine.  Not sure what the truck weighs but its all stock. 

So... with what I laid out maybe you can help me get out of my depression as i REALLY REALLY wanted a 445.  But like the Rolling Stones say best, "you can't always get what you want"
Thank you all for reading and any help,  in-put is much appreciated

[Riskit1234]

Sorry, forgot to add.  I did just buy a ac-heat set-up from Nostalgic A/C and the serpentine belt drive from March.  Ive already re-did all the brakes and running gear.  I stuck with the 16" rims and tires but added Toyo Proxies R888's.  The truck is lowered a couple inches and very straight rust free.  I buffed out the paint and cut it so it was very clean and clear coated it semi-gloss so it should stay put for awhile.  I originally bought some FlowMaster Super 10's to run but I just bought before the tax bill a set of there Delta Flow 50's to keep it tame while driving normal and a set of electric cut outs when I'm having run.

I have worked at a machine shop for a couple years as a kid just being a Do-Boy but I did learn a lot and being around it has helped me know that I really don't know much compared to guys who live this stuff.

Thanks again for any help

[jayb]

Welcome to the board, and sounds like a great project.  As long as the motor is apart, why not do the 445 short block and skimp on the rest of the stuff for now?  You can add heads and cam later, and you already have a good intake, carb, headers, and ignition.  Seems like the budget stroker kits are around $2000, and you'd have another $700 or so in machine work to bore and hone the block, put in cam bearings, etc.  Maybe spring for a cheap valve job on the existing heads, and use the cam and lifters out of the 390.  Then add a performance cam and valvetrain, and good heads later.  Its lots easier to do that than to pull the engine later for a stroker kit.  Build the foundation you want now, while the engine is out of the truck.  Then you can be driving it all the time; head and cam/valvetrain installation won't take the truck down for too long, when you get around to it...

[Heo]

You are missing two boltholes per side
for the engine mounts on that 63 block
compared to the 73 engine.
so you now

[Riskit1234]

Heo: I was aware of that (learned it from this site actually) but thanks for looking out...

JayB: I had thought of that and wanted to go that route but didn't know how to go about piston selection. If I use the stock heads and then switch them later what will I end up with for CR?
The seller of the motor said it was bone stock but right away I noticed 12point fasteners and after taking it down know it's been opened up.  I'll have it checked this week to see if I'm starting with a sound piece.  But back to the lower end.. What do I do later when I change out the heads. I think the stocks are 76cc's??? If I'm going to run it on 91 octane will that mean I need to possibly change the Pistons later when I change out the heads?   
As an option what if I leave the crank and rods ( the cost to stroke it does make so much sense) and just add new forged Pistons set up to new heads and maybe a 270mag H cam.. If after inspection the crank and rods look good maybe I could throw a 100 shot at it and keep it together?  I kinda thought that would keep me about the same price point. Down side obviously is 40 something year old parts at the heart. 
This is why I'm asking opinions... I really only know so much and as I said that I do know.. Is to ask for help..

[Barry_R]

On the stroker deal a 4cc swing in chamber volume is worth +/- .3 in compression ratio.  So a move rom 72cc to 76cc on the heads would take you from 9.7:1 to 10:1.  Should net be enough to cause big trouble unless you have the build right up against the "edge" on tune.  We have a couple options on piston volume, but I have a definite preference for one of them if the number permit.

[Riskit1234]

Hello Barry_R:  Thank you for the reply,  I didn't know it was that small a difference.  Obviously I have a million questions for you but I'll keep it simple for the sake of this post.  In your experience if my stock lower end checks out to be fine and it possibly is from a very low milage car all things considered the same... I use the same CR, cam, valve train.... What is the difference (other then new parts) to the motor.  I mean do you see an increase across the RPM range in TQ/HP from the increase of stroke. Some motors really love to have it added to it.  FE is new to me.

For bragging rights alone its cool to say you have a stroker and as I said I had always planed to go down this road.. From all the reading I've done the heads have a lot to do with the output of the FE.  What I'm getting at is if the lower end checks out would I be better off putting money into the heads instead of the crank and stroke.

Thank you very much for your input here.  I've watched pretty much EVERY youtube vid with a FE on a dyno and have bought every book made.  I've never seen a straight companion of 2 motors set up as I described and the difference. 

[jayb]

Given the same heads, cam, intake and exhaust, more cubic inches will equal more torque and horsepower.  Going from a 390 to a 445, you will pick up around 50 lb-ft of torque, which will make a huge difference in your vehicle.  I would reiterate that the stroker kit is the first thing I would do in your situation.  Also, if you need to fine tune your compression ratio, there are different head gasket thicknesses available, and aftermarket heads can be milled to reduce chamber volume if necessary.

I would strongly advise NOT running even a small nitrous shot on your stock components...

[Riskit1234]

Say no more.... It wasn't going to take much for me to go the new crank, rods and piston route once I understood the CR issue.  I really thought I needed to have the heads first or at the same time to get the correct cc and package it all from there.

Block gets dropped off today and when I get the results I'll place my order..

I'll start a new thread with my cam etc questions.

Thank you all for your input

[KMcCullah]

Welcome Risky. Always like to see a clean truck with an FE.     Your old T-bird block has a few minuses. The first already being mentioned was the narrow bolt pattern for the motor mounts. The second being the spot faces for the thrust bearing. The spot faces are quite a bit smaller in diameter on the 63' and older blocks. I haven't had any luck finding the right thrust bearing with smaller diameter flanges. So what I've done before is turned the flanges down on the 125M thrust bearing with no issues.

A cheaper stroker can be had here. Why not a 416? By using a 428 crank and a set of .030 410 pistons. Throw in a balance job of course. I think the whole short block could be done for just north of $1500.

[Riskit1234]

Kevin... I wasn't aware of the thrust flanges.. I'm totally newby on a FE.  I'm not sure yet on stroke size or set-up. Honestly I almost bought a stock turned down 428 crank from a member here who was wicked anti the scat 4.25... His big point was (in his opinion) they do not last at high RPM's... In reality it's a truck with a 3 on the tree right now:). I don't see 7,000 in its future...
If your reading this Mr 428 (not his name) I said this way nicer then you explained it to me..

I think I'm going to start a new thread now that I know the route I plan on heading.  Thank you again on the help..

[jayb]

The guy who told you that about the stroker cranks is not correct.  I've run them to 7000 RPM regularly.  Both on my 390 stroker dyno mule and my 427 stroker dyno mule, I've done literally hundreds of dyno pulls to 7000 RPM with the Scat 4.25" cranks.  They are solid to 7000 RPM and 700 HP.

Kevin is right about the thrust surfaces of the block, but you can trim the #3 bearing to match the block, as he said.  Maybe you can get your engine shop to do that for you.