Ran into a snag at the machine shop...

[Yellow Truck]

I started off with a 410 with the intention of just upping the cam. When I decided to go the 445 route and build a serious engine I swapped my disassembled engine with a buddy for a 390 block, Street Dominator intake, and a few bucks.

Now the bad news, the block has been taken out to 4.08 and in one cylinder there is still a little rust about an inch below the deck. You can just feel it with your finger nail, each spot is between 1/8 and 1/16 of an inch around, and there are a couple of them. The machinist feels you could build a more or less stock engine and it would run fine, but knowing what I'm doing he said he wouldn't.

My buddy will give me back the 410 block, and it was already about 4.07, and it would go 4.08 without a problem (we measured them before we swapped).

He also has a 390 GT block with an "X" cast in the lifter valley (or the end of the block, I don't recall) that he thinks indicates it is a high nickel content casting. This block has already been bored out to 4.07. He is of the opinion that because he has all the original parts including adjustable rockers that it is a valuable engine.

This leads to a couple of questions:

• Is the "high nickel content" a myth or is it real?
• How do you tell?
• What difference would it make (as in, should I lean on him to get it)?
• Last, I told him I didn't think an original 390 GT was considered a rare or valuable configuration, is it?

My understanding is that an original date code correct 390 GT was only worth a little more than a standard 390 today, but a high nickel content block might be interesting.

[Joe-JDC]

Get the known good block back.  The 390 GT did not come with adjustable rocker arms, but the earlier 390s did in the HP or PI special engines with solid lifters.   There were some blocks that were cast with different elements in the mixture to strengthen them, but high nickel content has not been documented from what I can find out.  You need a good sonic test taken at three levels in each bore at four locations to know for sure it will go +.080".  Joe-JDC

[turbohunter]

IIRC 427 blocks got high nickel after a certain date.
Pretty much fantasy in most other cases from what I can find.

[Gettinther]

I started off with a 410 with the intention of just upping the cam. When I decided to go the 445 route and build a serious engine I swapped my disassembled engine with a buddy for a 390 block, Street Dominator intake, and a few bucks.

Now the bad news, the block has been taken out to 4.08 and in one cylinder there is still a little rust about an inch below the deck. You can just feel it with your finger nail, each spot is between 1/8 and 1/16 of an inch around, and there are a couple of them. The machinist feels you could build a more or less stock engine and it would run fine, but knowing what I'm doing he said he wouldn't.

My buddy will give me back the 410 block, and it was already about 4.07, and it would go 4.08 without a problem (we measured them before we swapped).

He also has a 390 GT block with an "X" cast in the lifter valley (or the end of the block, I don't recall) that he thinks indicates it is a high nickel content casting. This block has already been bored out to 4.07. He is of the opinion that because he has all the original parts including adjustable rockers that it is a valuable engine.

This leads to a couple of questions:

• Is the "high nickel content" a myth or is it real?
• How do you tell?
• What difference would it make (as in, should I lean on him to get it)?
• Last, I told him I didn't think an original 390 GT was considered a rare or valuable configuration, is it?

My understanding is that an original date code correct 390 GT was only worth a little more than a standard 390 today, but a high nickel content block might be interesting.

Just my 2 cents worth quoted from High Performance Ford Engine
Parts Interchange
by George Reid

360/390/410
The 390 block doesn’t differ much from the 332/352/361 blocks of 1958-60. The 390 uses the
same block as the 360 and 410. All share the same 4.05-inch bore, with displacement varying
according to stroke. The only real difference here is the crankshaft. The 410 Mercury is a 428
crankshaft in a 390 block. The 360 for trucks is a 352 crank in a 390 block. Where this block varies
at all is in the area of high performance applications. The 1961-65 390 Police Interceptor and High
Performance blocks (C1AE-V, C2AE-BC, C2AE-BE, C2AE-BR, C2AE-BS, C3AE-KY, C3ME-B, C4AE-
F and C5AE-B) have heavier main bearing caps and drilled oil passages for hydraulic lifters. The
trick here is, Ford never drilled the oil passages from the main galleries to the twin lifter oil galleries,
which means no oil pressure to these galleries. Hydraulic lifters cannot be used in this block.
Another difference in the 390 Hi-Po block from 1961-62 is additional ribbing between the main
bearing webs. Ford also added an oil pressure relief valve to the block for added protection on the
390 Hi-Po.

[Yellow Truck]

Thanks, guys. We made the swap because he just wanted to put the 410 back together with more cam as it had a pretty mild cam when I bought it. Idea being it had worked ok (bit of an oil leak, but that was fixable) so it would work again.

I agree that my old block was a known commodity. In either case Joe, I wasn't going 80 over, 4.08 is 30 thousands of an inch over the stock 4.05. I'm not brave enough to go to a 4.13 bore.

[thatdarncat]

IIRC 427 blocks got high nickel after a certain date.
Pretty much fantasy in most other cases from what I can find.

It's a common myth that late 427 blocks are "high nickle". I believe it stems from the notice in the Ford O.H.O newsletter announcing a new 427 block available. I posted a picture below. It just states that Ford varied the chrome & phosphorous in the cast iron mix for more strength. But it just seems to have morphed into "high nickle" over the  years.



I don't think anyone knows what, if anything, the "X" means, but pretty much every FE block within a certain time frame - around 1968 & 1969 - got one.

[Joe-JDC]

You're right, I misread the first post, thinking you were talking +.070" already over.  I just had four blocks sonic tested at Ted Eaton's shop, and it was interesting to see the FE differences top to bottom, and side to side.  You should be able to rebuild just about any 390 block at +.040, +.050, without any issues even with a stroker.  Joe-JDC

[Yellow Truck]

I won't be going .040 or .050 over, I already have the pistons. Need a block that is good at 0.030 over.

Ford didn't do us any favours with the willy-nilly way they marked stuff.

[Yellow Truck]

My buddy, who swapped blocks with me and is a pretty good junkyard builder, sent me this:I went to look at the block and have seen the suspect areas.

It is small blemishes for a near 50 year old block.
I would have no problem running this block as is. Also checked with my uncle and a few other friends that have built many engines. You wouldn't notice any ill effect from this and definitely no catastrophic failures also there would be a good chance that those little areas would clear up when the chrome moly rings cut their pattern on the block during break in. my 390/360 prior to engine build had a circlip let go on one of the piston wrist pins and it cut a groove down the bore about 3” long 1/8” wide by about .060 deep and it didn’t burn a drop of oil and ran smooth and still made enough power to rip the back tires loose with 4 exhaust valve seats buried in the heads. My 390 block in my black truck now is in worse shape in every hole let alone one hole.

It is a blemish, not a gouge, but I'm leary of using it. Any thoughts? I know I'm not building a Formula 1 engine.

[jayb]

I agree with your friend; it is not likely that you will notice any issues from the defects, at least as they are described.  People tend to get overwrought over these kinds of things, but the engine is just not going to care about them.

[Yellow Truck]

Thanks Jay, I also spoke with Barry and he was of the same opinion. I'm going to listen to my betters and carry on with that block.