Author Topic: Old Cammer pics and text.  (Read 6887 times)

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jayb

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Re: Old Cammer pics and text.
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2014, 10:35:27 AM »
Great link Bob, thanks for posting that.  I have never seen actual printed news stories about the SOHC being banned from NASCAR until I read that link.  Factually it appears to be nearly perfectly correct; the only error I found was the claim that with Pete Robinson's gear drive the right cam could be used in both heads.  That is not true, of course, since the bearing spacings on the heads from side to side are different, and a right cam would not physically fit in a left head.  Also, I've read that moving the spark plug location up from the early SOHC head position to the standard head position was good for a bunch of horsepower, and this article says it wasn't, but who is to know for sure?
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

thatdarncat

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Re: Old Cammer pics and text.
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2014, 11:39:27 AM »
Also +1 thanks on the link. There was a book published in 1979 called "Ford GT40 SAE papers", based on the actual papers filed with the SAE and mostly detailing the development of the GT40, but in the chapter on the induction system they talk about the development of the 427 SOHC heads and intake also. What Ford found was the design of the ports and the placement of the valves and shape of the combustion chamber had a much bigger effect on increasing power than having the centered spark plug location. So it wasn't so much a case that the spark didn't care but it was the least important factor.
Kevin Rolph

1967 Cougar Drag Car ( under constuction )
1966 7 litre Galaxie
1966 Country Squire 390
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1968 Torino GT 390
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RJP

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Re: Old Cammer pics and text.
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2014, 02:52:01 PM »
Great link Bob, thanks for posting that.  I have never seen actual printed news stories about the SOHC being banned from NASCAR until I read that link.  Factually it appears to be nearly perfectly correct; the only error I found was the claim that with Pete Robinson's gear drive the right cam could be used in both heads.  That is not true, of course, since the bearing spacings on the heads from side to side are different, and a right cam would not physically fit in a left head. Also, I've read that moving the spark plug location up from the early SOHC head position to the standard head position was good for a bunch of horsepower, and this article says it wasn't, but who is to know for sure?
I heard a similar story about plug location. It was said that the SOHC engine development group was at a loss as to why the engine was not up to the power expectations they were aiming for. Seems by changing plug location was worth about 50+ hp over the original design. Also I vaguely remember seeing pictures [cannot recall where] of an early cammer with the plugs located in the center of the head similar to the 426 Hemi...anyone have any info on that?   

Heo

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Re: Old Cammer pics and text.
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2014, 03:06:44 PM »
Hard to do with the cam in the center of the head :o



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

thatdarncat

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Re: Old Cammer pics and text.
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2014, 04:48:12 PM »
RJP are you maybe thinking of something like this?



It's an early Boss 429 engine, before Ford changed the valve cover design and started putting them in cars. There was a similar engine Ford let all the magazines photograph back in the day that had chrome headers.
Kevin Rolph

1967 Cougar Drag Car ( under constuction )
1966 7 litre Galaxie
1966 Country Squire 390
1966 Cyclone GT 390
1968 Torino GT 390
1972 Gran Torino wagon
1978 Lincoln Mk V

machoneman

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Re: Old Cammer pics and text.
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2014, 05:17:19 PM »
The centered plugs were likely the Boss '9 with those neat pre-production valve covers as shown above.

On the Cammer, I've been looking for an old article and even a Ford side-by-side drawing of the early versus production exhaust port. The story I recall is different. Moving the plug to the topside didn't have much effect on power. As noted above the engineers were puzzled as to why the engine was down a bunch on hp in early iterations. I do remember the drawing showing the 1st gen port with a 'dog leg' bend. The final and now D-shaped port (at least, D-shaped when looking down the throat) clearly lost the dog-leg bend in it and became the production port.

I do think this is what Ed Pink was referring to with early blown nitro Cammers burning a hole right though the port!   

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 HRM] You started with Ford flatheads, then Chrysler Hemis, but you’re known for your development of the Ford 427 SOHC “Cammer” motors. How did that start?

EP] We had just started with the 426 Chrysler getting our feet wet. The Lou Baney Ford dragster was a Woody car that McEwen drove with a 392—it won the first HOT ROD Magazine Riverside meet. Lou came to me—we had a great history already—and he asks about running a Ford engine since he had a Ford agency. We went to Dearborn and I liked what I saw. I thought it would be good for drag racing to have something other than the Chrysler, and I thought the factory involvement would be good for me in later years, so we said let’s do it. Ford shipped engines, and from the time we started to the first time on the track was three months. I was able to take things I did with Chryslers and put them to use on the Fords like roller rockers and cams, but good, sanitary engine building was the real key. The first time out, it sounded good and ran good and had no problems. The bad thing was the cast-iron block was heavy, and the exhaust ports had a dogleg, but there was not enough material to get rid of it. We ran it that way for a while, but when we finally got the aluminum heads, that’s when it came to life. It lost 75 pounds and could run a lot harder. I preached to Ford we needed them—I raised so much hell Ford finally got us the aluminum heads. The first time we ran them, the exhaust port blew [apart] and I didn’t know how to fix it. I called Fran Hernandez at Mercury and he tells me to go to a coatings company called Absa Bond in Long Beach, California, to use one of its space-age coatings. That fixed it. It was a secret coating used on rockets that had just been released. I tried it on valves and combustion chambers and other things, too. When I put it on pistons, you had no way of knowing how much combustion temperature you were putting in it—you had to run it much richer and take lead out of it or you would melt the piston right down to the skirt. When you looked at the piston in the bore, you’d swear it was OK, but when you turned the block over, all of the aluminum was stuck to the cylinder walls. It did its job.


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« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 05:21:18 PM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

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Re: Old Cammer pics and text.
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2014, 06:53:14 PM »
FWIW, I had a complete top-end with the 'low' plug location. I was able to get it because they'd just gone to the 'upper' plug location. I had two 427s at the time but didn't have the extra $$ for new pistons so the stuff sat on the end of one of my work benches.

The development curve was practically straight up at that time and the upper plug location and the other changes they made at virtually the same time produced about 100 more HP. In the end my early cammer stuff was only used as garage art. It was a great time to have a finger in the Ford Performance pie even if it was only a fairly small finger. The local Ford employee race community was quite small and information access was easy through the 'network'.

There are a number of small errors in the above published stuff. Most of them were referenced in the comments afterwards.

KS

Lenz

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Re: Old Cammer pics and text.
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2014, 08:25:45 AM »
Just tagging on another thanks for the link and the extra info added by all, good history lesson with the pictures to back it up.  When I get the whole time travel deal figured out I'm heading back to the early 70's to score one of those $2,300 in the crate engines.
Len Zielinski
'64 Galaxie 500 445 Toploader
'69 F100 300 stick

machoneman

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Re: Old Cammer pics and text.
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2014, 08:33:15 AM »
Just tagging on another thanks for the link and the extra info added by all, good history lesson with the pictures to back it up.  When I get the whole time travel deal figured out I'm heading back to the early 70's to score one of those $2,300 in the crate engines.

While your at it Lenz, grab me a 30 year old Linda Vaughn for me, O.K.? I'll owe you one.

https://www.google.com/search?q=linda+vaughn&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS533US533&tbm=isch&imgil=AuU5Es-ygy12aM%253A%253Bvz_I5iM9UyYGwM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.autoorb.com%25252Flinda-vaughn-gallery%25252Fhttp%25253A%252525257C%252525257Cwww
Bob Maag

jayb

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Re: Old Cammer pics and text.
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2014, 08:55:33 AM »
Linda was at the PRI show, still mugging for the camera after all these years!
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Lenz

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Re: Old Cammer pics and text.
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2014, 01:55:46 PM »
Just tagging on another thanks for the link and the extra info added by all, good history lesson with the pictures to back it up.  When I get the whole time travel deal figured out I'm heading back to the early 70's to score one of those $2,300 in the crate engines.

While your at it Lenz, grab me a 30 year old Linda Vaughn for me, O.K.? I'll owe you one.

https://www.google.com/search?q=linda+vaughn&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS533US533&tbm=isch&imgil=AuU5Es-ygy12aM%253A%253Bvz_I5iM9UyYGwM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.autoorb.com%25252Flinda-vaughn-gallery%25252Fhttp%25253A%252525257C%252525257Cwww

Heh- I'm reminded of Crocodile Dundee who might have said "Now THAT'S a link."

I'll round her up Bob, no problem.  Not sure if I can get those personal floatation devices through the portal though, might need to take more measurements..... ::)

Glad to hear she's still at it too, some of those photos are straight out of my old Hot-Rod magazines.

Len Zielinski
'64 Galaxie 500 445 Toploader
'69 F100 300 stick