SK Rod bearings

[HolmanMoodyStroppeVet]

Hello guys

Thank for the real nice emails.

We have been sitting on some rare FE race parts a long time so I have a question, should we use some real rare, brand new, zero passes, gorgeous, polished, serial numbered SK NASCAR rods and maybe hard chrome the SK crank.

You guys know that the SK rods were about 1.000 wide versus the standard FE Lemans Rod. About 1/8th wider. Real tough parts for a race tunnel port, nascar, boats,GT 40s .  Brand new race team stuff really does belong in GT 40s or museum cars many say, so.....I tend to agree, and have helped such projects.

These have the littl micro marks, tiny serial number/batch stamps,really pretty, polished like chrome on the beams, the better pin bushings.

I am doing a blown gas SOHC for 'me', and my gang. You know,if you build and tune for teams, for some time, at some point, it is nice to have your own Fords with cool old Ford parts.  Beyond your past 427s 428s 390s and 406s, stroked sometimes of course,

Who knows, may just provide this mill to a cooler build, we will see.

Trying to do a fun fast build on this deal, sourcing rod bearings to start

She'll be blown. 

We also have SOHC cranks with late model Dodge rod journals, old trick, worked great in Dragsters...and a real nice std SK crank that needs to be polished and may end up on the low limit.

Did any of you guys see a run of 001 SK rod bearings? Beyond our old reds or blues? Anybody have some reds or blues? We would mix red and blue, and so on, and I have, once below the low dimension,hard chromed the SK cranks back, to start over.

I can't find .001s and 2s, which few had, we did...or any minus 010s, which had a short run 40 years ago.

Anybody do a run of -010 recently? I need to re polish this crank guys,but I just wondered

We did make 392 Chrysler bearings Mains when they became very obsolete. Several pitched in, to do a minimum order of 100 sets. About 100 a set. These got used in Nostalgia Blown Fuel.

I will call King soon. Hoped you kind guys may be sitting on a set or two.  I have found 3 sets for a few fast friends here in recent years.  So this time it is for my next blown SOHC, just on gas this time.

Have brand new rods,polished, magged, and want to 'cycle' them some day.

Or......maybe sell them as rare special parts. Who knows the going value, email me is fine , or give us a ballpark..

I think the 300-6 Ford bearing is close, need to get into the Master catalog that has all of the housing and finished journal dimensions.  A friend did use them and moved the tang.

Anybody have bearings?

LOL We can always just pour them for babbit like a model T ha ha ha . We scrape those to size with a sharp carbide knife and prussion blue.

We have 2   33-4 Willy's, clena, drag style rollers,and may just do an OHIO GEORGE looking tribute car, with a cammer, or, drop it in my chopped channeled Model A 'Lakes car'.

Or possibly an old, K 88/Dragmaster,with a 2 speed maybe, real real light, fun and fast.

Thanks !

[jayb]

Tom, if you have something for sale please don't mention it in a post like this in the regular forum.  Put it in the classifieds section. 

As far as the rod bearings go I don't think I've ever seen the .001 or .002 bearings that you're looking for; they've got be as rare as hen's teeth.  Most of us have gone to the much more readily available BBC stuff and stroker crank setups.  You are lucky to have all those cool old parts...

[HolmanMoodyStroppeVet]

Hi Jay and thanks for the reply . I want to talk to you and meet you some day, hopefully at the races if we get back there.  I have a fast friend or two who say that you are a nice guy and thanks for this Forum.  I like exchanging some ideas with guys trying to do good work and also who try to turn up the wick.  I think that this is the first time that we have actually exchanged emails so nice to meet you too.

I don't see an offer to sell something in what I typed, real sorry if anybody sees the statement, 'maybe I might' be wise to just sell them, as, please, buy parts I intend to sell, far from it, I want to cycle this stuff as I said.  Typing on the net can be taken in so many ways, a huge portion of net speak is in fact misunderstood they say. I was kind of thinking out loud and echoing what some suggested in the past. Sorry to offend you if I did, if not, sure, I will do ads when I have one.

 I did do an ad here once, and got nice emails to help some fast stuff with a SHELBY block or two, so if I have time, I try to help.  It is fun, to have old friends touch base, see all of these  invites, get requests and so on. Thanks guys. It is funny, how many fast, talented people that read the net but never post. Their reasons are many, but that can be polarizing.

Yes, we had batch limit high and low bearings, but to be frank, we got a lot of special parts that very few saw, and which were not for sale, generally speaking.  As I have said, we would often, grade and size 8 or 10 supposedly identical bearing sets, to the tenth, to select fit this or that piece, for this or that build, race, event.  We had very trick flow benches that sized any orifice, including an assembled rod if that seemed important. It cost FORD about 1 million 60s dollars they claimed, unreal.

I hope that we are good now.  If you ever care to chat, please email me.

The update is, spent about an hour with KING bearing, who makes them in Israel.  300 bearings is the minimum order, so, they are searching up and down 4 selection/sizing matrix', and I will see where that goes. The cost could be the same or less,economies of scale maybe, but I don't see the need, not at all. The wider rod is good, but...the speed, friction, and so on, is what it is.

There is no debate, that the stock FE bearing, used as intended, was very very durable and could go a ton of miles, in very abusive settings.  Especially if well maintained.  As we know, 428 irrigation engines are still running, and were good for decades of steady state work.

A second thought was, what we also tested

The GT 40, had to race and was fast, word class, and we have many pictures of the variations, never publicized, in the lower shop, hidden. Now you guys know, porche answered, with a full roller reciprocating assembly and a dry sump with more stages. Before long, guys figured, roller cam bearing should help, and many did versions.  Today, they are no big deal at all in race setting, where helpful.

On gas, a caged roller bearing, for sustained power,short use, say a race, even of long duration, has merits and demerits.  I do not see the need, other than saying we made it work here or there, and so the hardening and finish grinding operations would be time consuming.  How many fast 2 strokes used them almost 50 years ago, with only splash lubrication.


Steel backed Babbitt, overplated, is good in many builds, it is not always the hot tip for blown, not at all.  So, bearings can be made from other bearings.

Yes, the rat rod throws have been done since, 70-71 probably, but you are asking for trouble, for many builds, on a hollow drilled crank. We saw them break too fast.

We went all over this with Crower, Reath,Moldex, Velasco, Bryant , Ford and others back then, made billet cranks in house, so, I like re looking at fun projects too.

I have used SK bearings, and, they can be re done.   The old guys are out there, and they will turn up in plenty of time to do this deal. I found a stash yesterday, and could use more.

OK, need to make a SOHC fixture and mandrel, turn, harden, heat treat soon, then grind.

And Jay, how cool that you found some SOHC stuff, I just found 4, and got number 127 for a nice build, it is so cool to see all the new FE stuff.

Again, sorry if anybody thinks I want to sell these.   I don't even let people look at them much....that's me.  Maybe they belong in a museum was kind of the idea, but naaaaaaaa......put some heat in them sounds more fun.

It is fun to see Pro Stock Paul's adapter being re done too, he didn't sell that many back when, many didn't want two gaskets, I saw them be fine at the drags and since then, othe intakes have base, and plenum gaskets, just re torque a few times.

We did do some part of those if I recall.  Made a fixture maybe, maybe he asked for a bid, been a long time.  I liked the real, old school, Flathead cover aspect too.  Nice work.  I wanted to ask, did you call Paul about this? He has been under the radar a long time, been 40 years for some of us maybe.

I hope that you sell a bunch of batches and have fun in the process. If I see guys who need one, I will send them to you. I do that quietly for many friends, as time allows.

A lot of guys job shop runs like that, we did when buried and against a race deadline.  You know, farm out the roughing.  I want to see your machine shop some day too, maybe I missed the shop tour, I will look.  Love a nice machine shop, with all of the bells and whistles. Great place to mock up engines and make power.

Thanks again for all that you do and for the pals here.

Still looking for bearings that ball mike good. Hard chrome is good to restore and harden, many journals, still an option.

My Best

[cjshaker]

Tom, the "red" and "blue" bearings are really really scarce! I have never seen a set of .010 or .020 bearings for the SK cranks. I would not want to run one simply because of the fact that replacements are near impossible to find. Which means if you need a new set you simply have to search your butt off and pay a small fortune (IF you're lucky enough to even find them), or give up and start over with another crank. Certainly not good options either way.

It would be wise, as Jay said, to simply get a billet or forged crank, with the BBC rod journals, for a fueler or blower engine.  I recently wanted to have my C5$ crank turned to accept the 2.2 Chevy rods for my 427 SO, but Adney said it wasn't a wise move due to the offsetting of the oil hole. DRATS! So I stuck with the typical FE rod journal and less than perfect bearing (due to it's lack of full width for the rod). I would have went to another crank to get the 2.2 journals, but I was dedicated to keeping the stock 3.78 stroke and steel crank. I want my engine to be a true MR 427, and since it's not a big horsepower engine, it should be ok.

[HolmanMoodyStroppeVet]

Hi

Thanks again for the nice emails, invites and questions.

A rat rod in Nitro won't live,nor be ideal injected on Nitro, which I did a lot of,nor pushed hard on blown gas. Pushed backed down, OK, on good gas but why?

I look at it this way, 1000s of passes, from the 60s, and millions of dollars, up until today, perfect the 'Combos' that we run, to this day.  Just go to a ANRA, NMRA or GOODGUYS meet.  Many of you and we, have in our tune up books, and so on. No need to re invent certain wheels, if the experiment causes an expensive failure or hurts somebody.

The old stuff was fun to do,see, and learn from.  Remember, we love front motored stuff around here a lot. My bad, no big firewall or car here to protect the driver, this is probably going to run old school, outlaw or legal, we will see.

We raced the FE bearing fine, into the 7s in some cars, aluminum rods, pinned, and the SK size, well, look at the trophies.  Now by 69, Ed Pink, Kieth Black, who we know, and knew from then,  the Ford Drag team, and I have tune up stuff and dyno sheets, and a whole bunch of guys had a huge budget to try anything. I like to try new things a lot, but,here,I know what did work, and what will work to some level. Like the low 6s, high 5s.Many Many times.

We all settled on the late model Doge rod size, and I have sent that stuff to the line to win a lot, and get in the 5s.  Heres the point, 6 teens, and 4 passes on the engine, heads and pan never came off. Not going to happen with a wet sump and rat rod. If you are doing that, well praise the lord and pass the ammunition

Rat Rod size is fine, well, say in a Earl Wade Style SOHC, or a Dyno Don style SOHC, current, good to 9600, with the right rat rod, and tricks. We are doing that, and have done that, that is fine. The Drag Team and Dyno, and many more, did a lot with the FE size we should recall. A hollow pin crank has its merits and we lightened some too.

If I see a fast rat,and I have seen my share, you see them Dry sumped . Ford won a lot with FE's wet sumped too.

I rather leave other potential problems to hassle you too, and focus on winning or doing well.  I am cool with it all.  But trying to win means a predictable, tunable combo for us too I guess.

All is cool, but I wouldn't send anything blown, fuel, alky, good gas,to the line, close to on kill, with a rat rod in aluminum.  Don't want to break or hurt anybody,or have to service the rods too much.

Pro Stock style, or anything less, let her rip. The right domestic steel rods, great deal in a modern block at 2.200 to our experience. But not always necessary at all into the 9s and 8s,with carbs. Again, in a car.

Rat rod blown cars back when, had crank issues galore. It got to the point, of burning up 1 crank per pass, or needing a dry sump. Some do a billet, for the Dodge bearing by the way. 

Guys came back with many of us, in the 90s and 00s, tried again, and cooked crank after crank, even with a dry sump....LOL

Blown nitro small block, different deal, lighter parts

Pure Heaven runs a blown fuel rat, love the car, and guys,but it is a high 6 car. It has run the bigger rod too if I recall, a custom deal. The Altereds going close to 6-0, and we have helped our share there too,Dodge journal all day.   Not a 2,200 rod in any field I saw, or see, that won and lived.

The SK crank was plentiful out here due to Us, Mickey Thompson and others. It was raced well, as is, and is a tough crank.  It is a wise step that won big trophies and championships. I dig that and respect it a lot. 

It was run blown, hard,on a Dodge rod too. Once those started breaking, you delete the hollow pin and added counterweight, often welded like a prior thread asked. Sorry I was busy, that guy has one of our welded counterweight cranks, for later.Many tricks inside them.

Only the very top teams, had billets, and as I said, we also did them in house from ford raw forgings, and true billet.  I think we can push the FE, std and wide, pretty far is the point. And the Dodge size into the 4's on big cars. Current Dragsters and FCs

 The rat size, I'd be fine up to T Bolt,A FX of today, or boat style blown gas,on good gas, River rat style, set to live,and be reliable. Not set like a Roman Candle though. I go with the flow from much better guys for sure.

I wish Black was still with us, he would visit and call us and was a fine man, a genius. KB ruled so many classes. Pink and I talked about SOHC then and now, and we will bounce those ideas around soon. Ford, and them,perfected the Dodge rod Ford crank deal, I agree and trust it. 

I appreciate and thank all of you.

All I care about is pushing FE's back into the 8s, 7s and 6s for now.  Done it plenty with Dodges, time for more fast 'true' Fords for a lot of us.

Have the tune ups, combos,2 SHELBY blocks, 2 sets of heads now,mag blower intake, some sponsor money, the car(have a choice), one legal, one needing updates, have the magnetos,fuel systems,need a can, have clutches,blowers and so.  Lets just help any of you guys push it to the line,and lets hope we can keep pushing and find more help.  Have more , need more , What's new.

The SK crank can be chromed back, or turned to Dodge I guess, booooo, unless KING can do us a close enough to machine and use deal.

As I said, not suitable to turn to a rat, strong as designed. 

You guys are all awesome, thanks for the ideas and kindness.

I dig dig all of the innovation and keen minds, experience, war stories, and cool cars. And the cool cats we see at the races or who email.  Please, it can take 2 weeks for us to email back.

And if you find bearings, please email any old time

Always fun....

Our Best