Author Topic: Pond aluminium block issues  (Read 2988 times)

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ToddK

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Pond aluminium block issues
« on: January 11, 2018, 11:44:35 PM »
I bought a Pond aluminium block about 10 years ago to use for the engine in my race car. The block has had a number of issues requiring what I would consider not normal for a new aftermarket block.

The first problem we came across was the width if the saddle on the #3 main was wider on the cap than it was on the block by approximately 0.010", but only on the front thrust face. The cap aligned correctly on the rear thrust face.

The next problem was the deck surfaces had depressions at both ends that looked like they had been left by a finger clamp. This was on both decks. I know this may have been caused by the machine shop and not a manufacturing defect, but the shop that did the machining is fairly competent and should have known not to overtighten on the aluminium decks.

The next problem was the 2 of the main studs stripped out the threads in the block. The studs were installed correctly, only finger tightened, and the nuts were only ever torqued to correct spec. To fix this and prevent any further problems, all main stud holes in the block were fitted with thread inserts.

All the above problems occurred before the engine was ever started. The engine was finally finished and run in on the dyno. However, after the break in procedure, it was found that the cam bearings were excessively worn. To overcome this, a set of roller cam bearings were fitted. The engine was fired back up and a further break in cycle carried out. It was then removed from the dyno and the oil pan was dropped to check the bottom end. That was when the latest problem was found, pictured below.



When the tension was checked on the #1 main stud nut, the stud was loose. When the thread inserts were installed on the main stud holes, it was made sure there was enough material between the hole and the main saddle. 

I understand that all these problems can be caused by bad machining or assembly practices, and if only 1 or 2 of these problems had occurred, I would not suspect anything more than that. But to have all these problems, and the engine has not even made any power runs, let alone been installed in my car, leads me to suspect that there could be a problem with the block.

I've started this thread to see if anyone else has encountered similar issues. I have emailed Robert Pond about the problems, but have yet to hear back from him. I'm not trying to get any sort of refund, I understand that problems can occur. But it appears to me that maybe the block did not have the correct heat treatment done, leaving the aluminium weaker than it should be. Does anyone know what level of heat treatment the block should have had?

My plan for this block is to try and have the broken saddle welded and repaired. But before I go ahead with that, I would like to have the block metallurgically tested to see if the aluminium is the correct strength. Assuming that is checks out okay and can be repaired, I will only use it for a lower power application than I had intended for my race engine.

Autoholic

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Re: Pond aluminium block issues
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 12:50:51 AM »
Not sure what the correct heat treatment was supposed to be for the RPM block, and if I was Robert Pond I'd probably offer you a discount on a replacement block.

As for what you should maybe consider the next time you get an aluminum FE, have the block and heads go through a cryogenic heat treatment once all machining is complete. Cryogenic heat treatment brings the parts down to a really cold temp, and then brings them back up to a specific temp and this process might happen several times. The result is all stresses that wind up in the metal from machining and even sometimes forging, are reduced if not eliminated. This can strengthen the engine, and keep this from happening again. Something to think about.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017/03/big-chill-cryogenic-metal-treatment-benefits-may-not-visible-real/
~Joe
"Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn."

GJCAT427

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Re: Pond aluminium block issues
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 05:55:28 AM »
Todd, your photo looks like the time cert may have been at fault. The bearing notch looks like it may have been breeched when installed. That would have allowed the crack to start. How was the side thrust on the Crank? Too little would have let the block expand and crank will move some and the crack start. How high did the motor rev during break in.

ToddK

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Re: Pond aluminium block issues
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 06:58:56 AM »
Not sure how high it revved, I wasn't present during the run in. It does look like the bearing notch may have been breached. I'm not sure how much side clearance the crank had, I will have to check with the builder. I only had a brief look at the block before I had to head back to work, so I didn't get to check all the saddles closely.

This whole engine build for my race car has been one long and frustrating experience for me, with seemingly one unexpected issue after another continually popping up. I have so much investment poured into it that it has gone too far to just give up on it, but that is what I feel like doing now. I'm not sure if I posted this thread to get answers or just to vent my frustration with this latest issue.

scott foxwell

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Re: Pond aluminium block issues
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 07:02:57 AM »
The minute the main threads stripped I would have stopped and gotten with Pond. That was a dead giveaway there was a problem. The timesert removed too much material and made the main web weaker. Not a good fix for that but the problem shouldn;t have occured in the first place.
Welcome to working with aluminum blocks. Like a bad poker hand...you have so much into it you just have to see how it plays out.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 07:04:49 AM by scott foxwell »

ToddK

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Re: Pond aluminium block issues
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 06:42:25 PM »
It's seems my big mistake was to buy the block from an eBay seller, rather than direct from a Pond vendor. I heard back from Robert Pond and he confirmed they junked a few defective blocks early in production. So it looks like someone may have got hold of one of these junk blocks and sold it off as a good part. My bad for buying a high dollar item from eBay and not from an authorized vendor. Lesson learnt the hard way.

I will try and rescue this block, even if it means I have to give it a new heat treatment and then re-machine it. But I won't be using it for my race engine. I have a cast iron Genesis block I was saving for another project, this will now be the basis for my race engine.

Gregwill16

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Re: Pond aluminium block issues
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2018, 08:06:03 PM »
Sorry to hear that Todd, we all have chased the better deal at one point or another and don't think about what you're not getting for the extra $. Just try to look at the bright side that at least you caught it now and not going down the track in your car and something really bad happening and costing you a car and an engine or even worse.