Author Topic: Best combination for a N/A 900 HP FE leaving the cammer out of it ?  (Read 8922 times)

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HolmanMoodyStroppeGang

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Re: Best combination for a N/A 900 HP FE leaving the cammer out of it ?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2016, 05:22:16 PM »
Howdy

I took his question as Normally aspirated(N/A) excluding a SOHC, as it states

Then he asks;
Just interested in what it would take besides a lot of cubic dollars? This would also be coupled to a stick shift in a 3300-3400lb car.

I should explain maybe.  I read the question then reply usually.  Then, I can honestly reply without stealing the other posters homework to some extent.    And it doesn't look like a 'Parrot' post.

That was all I saw,,,the East Coast Nostalgia angle rules out a blower, sure, but for purposes of ET and MPH, I still think he could really open a new performance door by going puffed some day.

Early on I knew a lot of carb only purists and that is great. Many just thought that anything blown was way too hard on parts, way to finicky, way too radical and way too not stock. Every one of them who went blown stayed there for a while and had fun.

I always really respected and enjoyed both am not a blower guy who looks down at carbs guys in any way. Many blown guys do look down at carbs for this or that reason and I don't get it. It is all a challenge and Hot Rodding. 

This poster seems to have the need for speed, why else does he want the highest FE combo possible?   If he has that kind of itch, he might be ready to step up I was thinking, even if he makes exhibition passes or singles.   It is not as if he is giving up some huge purse or sponsorship I was thinking too.

Thanks just the same. I hope he does in fact get to his power goal and have a blast. 

How many of the posters here have run a blown car or want one some day ?  Not trying to pivot but I bet a few of you guys would have a lot of fun too.  I just wondered.

Last afterthought is, simple blown gas parts usually don't get exploded into bits on mere gas. Fuel, yes, va va voom.   So you can play with the stuff and resell it for real good money too. It is tunable up and down, so former full race stuff gets slowed down to cruise a lot too.

Thanks again

cjshaker

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Re: Best combination for a N/A 900 HP FE leaving the cammer out of it ?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2016, 05:59:37 PM »
Tom... you need to read before you post. See post #5 where he says "for NSS on the East Coast". They have rules... blowers, nitrous, etc. aren't allowed. N/A only. You could have saved all your valuable time it took to write up your "essay".

Actually, it's much simpler than that, Thor. The thread TOPIC (as stated in the main subject line) is N/A....as in NO blowers. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

TravisRice

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Re: Best combination for a N/A 900 HP FE leaving the cammer out of it ?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2016, 09:16:21 PM »
I am familiar with the build / combo of Mike C. and his accomplishments. Chatting with him is what made me realize the extreme swing differences in the different Super Stock Association's. Mainly the engine displacement rules. Heck some NSS rules even allow the 385 series to run. I am only interested in the N/A deal. If I were to go blown, super-charged, pro-charger, or even turbo I believe my efforts would be better suited with the 385 series engine as it would not fit into any Super Stock class on the east coast anyways and believe the budget could be closer to $25 - $30k range with more wedge cylinder head options that flow in the upper 400's to the lower 500 cfms.

57 lima bean

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Re: Best combination for a N/A 900 HP FE leaving the cammer out of it ?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2016, 10:13:12 AM »
385 series engines in a NSS class would mean that they would only be interested in the (visual) of a race car.Kind of sad really.

HolmanMoodyStroppeGang

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Re: Best combination for a N/A 900 HP FE leaving the cammer out of it ?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2016, 02:30:19 PM »
Ok Travis, I get the picture better now.  I suggested force feeding it when you referred to cost in cubic dollars. When you push many engines to win at the very top of the class, they can eat springs, cams, and other parts faster than many blown combos, and the parts are up there.  If you have that 50K more or less, or some of the parts, great.

An FE can be reliably built at over 1,000 HP with a SHELBY or POND block and good steel crank, maybe a Sonny Bryant or Crower, Velasco, and similar, for insurance.  I was thinking, Mike C runs a SHELBY block, and you will need a good block and crank, so once you have the solid block and crank, you can change it over to go blown some day too.

Sure, a 385 is a easy and less costly path, but it is not the true path for our 60s muscle cars. But for Lima Bean,,,(That name makes me hungry for some delicious southern style food btw),  many people get your point.

Out West we DO allow a 385 in Nostalgia Super Stock.  The promoters told me that the fans don't care as long as the old cars go down the track and also that they were concerned about cost.  Sure there are other reasons

Some real nice guys run them just to be able to keep their old Ford racing.  They are priced out of the 9 second FE power basically.

But this is where my head spins at times.  Rules can start fights.  Saw that elsewhere.  We did an essay, several gas pals and me, to ask how on earth the Mid West Nostalgia guys ban all Mustangs?   That is not at all how the Gas classes were out West in the 60s?   and Stroppe, shucks, we did 12 Mustangs in a row for the Ford Drag Team?  All fit the rules and all won and did well.  We did a lot of AFX Mustangs too?

Shucks, my pal Tommy Grove who is a true true Ford Hero of ours, he ran the Charlie Horse in 65-6 and it flat flew with an FE?   Talk to Bobby Spears and so many more.

So rules can be arbitrary I guess, or political some say, so I guess you have to follow them to run that series or do your own thing.  We like that a lot.  Pretty much pure Hot Rodding to some of us.

Many of us just build what we like.  We helped a team do a 709 inch Boss Hemi a while back, sure, it did not fit a class in a T Bird but it flew, turned heads and was cool

And some guys missed this fact, I helped old Dyno Don do some 'T Bolt Clones' he called them.  The fact is, Don made the same move and used a big 385 to just get the ET and MPH up there but look original everywhere outside.  On the track, these cars looked like T Bolts.  Pop the hood and there is a big old 385 wedge.  He would have loved to build a similar level FE but we priced it out several times.  The full cost was 3 times almost and moslty aftermarket parts.  Don did like the fact that his Crate Engine based engines were almost all genuine Ford and he liked to support Ford and SVO too.   So that is a factor for some guys.

Lot's to consider

Later, Don had a 385 series close to Pro Stock engine in a heavy car running low 7s.  Again, he had a goal of low ET with an eye toward cost.

For me, I have a ton of FE stuff because I love FE's.  385 stuff got done at Holman Moody Stroppe.   This stuff is still available so I collect just a little to build off of

I usually have some new SHELBY blocks stuffed away so I can help my FE pals. Waiting for the next 2 soon they say.  Point there is, we did one out to 4.440 for a big blown Fairlane last year. But as Blair said, the land or gasket area between the bores is real slim.  That is your call.

But for me, I like an FE car to have an FE in it.  That is my first choice.   It just looks and feels right and it takes you back in time.

I do have a new HM Medium Riser blower intake for me.....(Jokin now)....if you need to borrow it some day,,,to put the hurt on some Bowtie Boy....hee heeee

Have fun a good luck.

I plead guilty to having always liked blowers a lot too.....


Barry_R

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Re: Best combination for a N/A 900 HP FE leaving the cammer out of it ?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2016, 07:22:57 PM »
... A friend has one that made 918HP, has Blue Thunder CNC ported high riser heads, 4.375 bor Genesis block, 4.125 billet crank (496CI), aluminum rods, big compression, big roller cam, T&D race rockers, interestingly enough it has a cast HR tunnel wedge intake that is just port matched, 2 - 4150 carbs. The heads flowed right at 400 at .900 lift. It is in a 3000 pound car and 230'ish driver, went 8.78@151 with a 5 speed Liberty in a 66 Fairlane, shifting at 7800 and 8000 through the traps.

I would think you would want a big bore, 4.350 to 4.380 and either a 4.125 or 4.250 stroke crank, either heads and all the rest...

I was involved in that particular build to an extent - supplied block, heads, intake, camshaft, crank & some other misc parts.  That formula is exactly how I envisioned a maximum effort FE project, and it remains the highest horsepower N/A FE I have been involved in.  Bore large, stroke long enough to allow some RPM and a nice piston & ring package, cubic inches as large as I thought the heads would support.  As Blair mentioned - its a combination thing where you try to optimize around a lot of variables and inherent FE limitations.  The finish builder on that particular engine went with an aluminum rod, and I expected the peak RPM range to be a bit higher - so there is still some room to grow on that package.

whitea62.7t

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Re: Best combination for a N/A 900 HP FE leaving the cammer out of it ?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2016, 08:33:48 PM »
If i hit tonight LOL , i want this engine