Flat tappet cams

[Barry_R]

Not sure if this belongs in the tech section...

Discussions with several folks at PRI indicate that the days of the flat tappet cam - as we know it - have come to a close.

The only source for cast cam cores - CWC Textron - has apparently stopped shipping castings

A high defect rate, coupled with a large OEM contract for other products, has forced a decision to step away from camshaft casting

Unless/until someone finds an alternate source -- flat tappets are going away soon.

[cjshaker]

How industry wide do you think this affects things? Will that include Y-block, flathead and other such early engines? If that's the case, that is going to seriously put some hurts on engines where rollers really aren't an option.

[My427stang]

In general, that is a bummer.  Lot's of people will have to spend more to get what they want. I don't use a lot of flat tappet stuff, but know lots of guys out there buying on a budget

[Rory428]

Although you may not be able to purchase a new flat tappet cam from places like Comp Cams, Lunati, Isky, or any of the other big name can companies, as long os old cam cores are still around, places like Oregon Cam, and other independent cam grinding companies should be able to continue providing cams for a long time. I have been running Oregon Cam cams and lifters for decades, and they offer a multitude of grinds for FE engines, and being a Ford drag racer, and FE fan, pretty certain that Ken has a pretty good stockpile of cores. He also can resurface flat tappet lifters, which I have used in the past with good success. And when I lived near Vancouver British Columbia until 4 years ago, there were 2 similar cam grinding businesses in the area. As long as these shops can keep having employees to work there, we should be good for some time. I have a racing buddy in my new home town, that operates an engine rebuilding shop that his father started many years ago, and some of the horror stories that he has been telling me about factory roller stuff is pretty scary. Between the well know issues with the Chevy LS V8s, and Chrysler Hemi V8s with cylinder deactivation, seems like going with rollers is no guarantee of reliability. He recently had a Dodge V6, a 3.6 or 3.7L I believe, that is a DOHC engine, and apparently these engines are well known for having the roller wheels on the rocker arm followers seize up, and dig grooves in the cam lobes. The one he recently did, needed all 4 cams, plus all 24 roller followers, to the tune of $4500. ! Isn`t modern technology a wonderful thing? He is also working on a Caterpillar diesel inline 6 cylinder, that needs a new cam and set of mushroom hydraulic , the cam from Cat is $2000., and the set of new lifters are $3000. (in Canadian dollars, US $ would be about 35% less expensive). 

[Barry_R]

Other than regrinding old cams - as Rory mentioned - it will be industry wide.
Everybody - large and small.
There are significant limits as to what can be reground from a previously finished core.

When you actually follow the supply chain for cast camshafts, it's rather small.  A single casting supplier (CWC-Textron} feeds two rough finish machining companies (Camshaft Machine Corporation, or Engine Power Components).  Those two companies finish bearing journals, hob distributor gears, do end drilling and machining for timing gears and such, and rough grind the lobes.  They then send out unground lobe cams (UGL's) or finish grind per customer specifications for most of the brand names you all know of.  They will even package cams if the customer requests it.  The famous brand names will finish grind the UGL's, and/or inventory the already finished product.

There is likely to be a stunningly large amount of inventory in the entire supply line, but it will become more and more of a scavenger hunt for the cam you want.

I would expect the various cam retailers to pursue alternate casting core suppliers.  Probably offshore.  Quality - which has already become sketchy - will suffer.  Availability for lower volume stuff might be impossible for a while.  And costs will actually go up.  Price pressure on the three businesses above have been so high for so long that none of them were particularly profitable despite their size and position in the aftermarket.  The aftermarket flat tappet camshaft industry has been fragile/vulnerable for a long time.

[cjshaker]

None of that sounds good. I can see a wave of cheaply made offshore stuff hitting the market then, and that most certainly won't be good.

[frnkeore]

A little different POV, from a cam guy:

https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69630

Who owns Bullet?

[Rory428]

Not sure if he actually owns Bullet Cams or not, but when I was racing my Mustang in Stock Eliminator, it was always John Partridge that I talked with when I needed to talk cams.

[Barry_R]

One of the folks I spoke with at PRI was a long time (+/-30 years) contact that currently works at Bullet.

[CaptCobrajet]

John does own Bullet.  He has been in the camshaft world for at least 50 years.  He did us Super Stock cams at Lunati in the ‘70s.  There is lots of talent at Bullet.  We have been doing billet flat tappets for Stockers for close to 20 years.  I guess if the iron cores get scarce, a person could always do billet and coated lifters if they want flat lifters bad enough.  I probably have a hundred good flat tappet cams around here.  Might be time to sell them, lol. 

We quit using flat lifters on all but class legal apps many years ago.  You can really do anything you want to do with the various types of rollers that are available.  I just hope we can keep a supply of distributor gears flowing.  That seems to be better for now………fingers crossed.