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Messages - cdmbill2

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76
Member Projects / Re: 545" High Riser Build
« on: January 09, 2012, 06:14:28 PM »
Jay: I bought an MS3X unit before DW11 and we used it with the eight AFR setup, but we didn't have time set up and transfer the tune. I had built the harnesses etc. buit time got thight. That video dyno session was four days before I loaded up to go to Kansas, not quite as bad as your thrash, but close.

The MS# will of course handle individual cylinder fuel and spark as well as a bunch more datalog capability.

77
Member Projects / Re: 545" High Riser Build
« on: January 06, 2012, 03:22:54 PM »
Fuel distribution IS an issue with direct port injection, just as it is with carbs, because of reversion, resonance, and boundary layer effects on the fuel in suspension in the airflow. Below is datalog of the same 588" 385 motor I mentioned in an earlier post. The datalog is from an engine dyno pull where we used eight AFR sensors mounted in the primary tubes of the dyno headers.

The tested RPM range is from 4500 - 7500 although the graph covers roughly 3500 to almost 8000. Look at Cylinder #2, the Red line in the bottom graph. During a WOT pull it goes as low as 10.7:1 AFR, and then 2 seconds later it's running at 13.5:1. The mid line is 12.5 AFR.

Cylinder numbering:
Top Graph: (Yellow=1, Blue=3, Purple=5, Green=7)
Bottom Graph: (Red=2, White=4, Blue=6, Yellow=8)

You'll see the traces for each cylinder move around quite a bit but variation narrows at around 5500 rpm through 7500 which is the target WOT operating RPM.

You can see a video of the setup here: http://www.bangshift.com/blog/Dyno-Video-A-598ci-1014hp-Ford-Big-Block.html


78
Member Projects / Re: 545" High Riser Build
« on: January 05, 2012, 06:21:33 PM »
For another variation on the plenum discussion, this is my TFS A-460 t-ram after porting done by Wilson manifolds. It has the as cast TFS dual Dominator top runing two 2180 CFM Accufab TB's and port EFI. We ran this motor at Drag Week briefly after making 1006 HP on pump gas.

Its mated to a set 3rd gen TFS A460 heads using a custom CNC program developed by Lem Evans and TFS. The 385 firing order is also 15426378, but when we put it on the engine dyno we found lean out issues at certain RPM's with #2 and #7 using eight AFR sensors in the primaries of the dyno headers. TFS says this is typical. So no issues with 5 and 1. Your results may vary.






79
Member Projects / Re: 585" SOHC - Teardown, repair, rebuild, and re-dyno
« on: December 09, 2011, 03:54:20 PM »
Jay, looking at this differently for a moment, what are the differences, parts, assembly, cam etc. between this version of the engine which shows that appearant piston to valve interference problem and the last version(s) that didn't form priro Drag Weeks etc.?

Given the way the valve intersects the bore and the piston face I'm wondering about those particular valves hanging up on the compression stroke bleeding power, and causing the piston to knock it closed otherwise its hard to understand how the witness mark can be so far from the scribed valve diameter.

You can obviously expand the radial size of the valve relief but you haven't actually discovered the source of the interference.

Also, what is that black curled up substance we see in the pictures? Carbon, or blackened valve material?

80
Member Projects / Re: 545" High Riser Build
« on: November 30, 2011, 07:14:47 PM »
Jay, I know we are dealing with some differences in archecture but to make close to 900 HP on the old 582 I was using RX series lobes, 4311 & 4315 and for the 588 to make a bit over 1000 we wnet to REV intake and XCX exhaust 1844 and 1964 lobes respectively on a 113. Just as FYI.

Lash stability and RPM has been great though the power peak is now 7500. With the RX's and a 109 it was a 6900 power peak.

81
Member Projects / Re: 545" High Riser Build
« on: November 17, 2011, 02:03:46 PM »
Jay, hopefully the T&D deal works out on the pushrod hole location. The other factor that might help is going to a lrger diameter lifiter, a .904 or .932 with an offset push rod cup would give even more room.

I am really pleased with how the .904's worked on the 588" build.

As to manifold, XR7's idea about a dry manifold, e.g. the wet parts are separate along with a vally tray would really simplify a lot of other considerations and allow you to experiment wi the dry side only in terms of runner length, plenum configuartion, carb or TB or IR etc. You might want to add a bolt hole or two in the head to make the attachment process easier and cleaner or look at bringin water into the head from the front like the C460 and other 385 style heads.

I know all this moves away hrom certain FE centric design ideas but you are pushng the evelope anyway and most of these parts are after market custome stuff as well instead of NOS unobtainium so why not?

Keep up the great work its inspiring for me too.

82
Member Projects / Re: 545" High Riser Build
« on: October 19, 2011, 01:13:38 PM »
Great read as always. My Danny Bee unit on the 385 has a similar, but smaller diameter plate as yours and it comes out with a little persuasion and small curved point pry bar.

The bolts can get stuck, both the cam retaining plate and the larger access plate. I don't use lock-tite on them anymore, I use Vibra-tite which is typically used on brake caliper bolts. I had to weld bolts onto those little counter sunk bolt heads when it pull the motor apart. The Dougan's guy showed my a collection of similarly welded up bolts from several different belt drive set-ups so the issue more common than I would have thought.

Do check for push rod clearance alll the way through the cycle form the pushrod to the link bar stanoff on the lifter. With offset pushrod cups especially. I had to go to a short tie bar set-up 351C lifter on mine to cure that issue. I went to .904 diameter Isky's for the new build as you get a larger diameter wheel, .810 vs. .750 and it is over .100 wider than the normal wheel on a .874 lifter.

Something to think about for the next one.

83
Jay, not surprisingly I too have followed this closely and was surprised that you didn't know about the start up timing retard function. I did the same when I switched from an MSD Digital six box that had that same feature and we replicated it in the EMS-pro's software setting.

When we were chasing my signal problem during day one of the 588's engine dyno session, we had tested the sensor using our EDIS Dyno, (the wheel mounted on a bench grinder as I don't have a lathe at home) a got the same solid square wave once the connection was fixed.

Back when the sensor input was more fussy (pre-Jay Brown mod) I'd found that the air gap was really sensitive with the LS-1 sensor (Scott tells me that you determined its electrically the same as the Hamlin) and we settled on .029.

Other notes, my shielded sensor cable bundle's ground is drained at the mount on the engine rthater than the common gorund point.

We haven't checked for the wheel becoming magnatized either. BTW we learned that Ford sells a superseeded part number version of the used  Turbo four cylinder EDIS wheels we've been sourcing on eBay for these conversions. Cheaper and better availability. The one I have in the car is a new one Ford Part Number F2lz-12a227-BB, the one i used before was eBay F2LE-12A227-BC.

I'm going to work on a document regarding these kinds of installs as we've all chased a similar set of problems and have worked through a lot of the same issues. Having this better documented would make life better for Scott I think.

84
Jay, in my recollection my scope pattern (Scott's device conneceted to his laptop) didn't show the amplitude variation I see in yours. I'm using a Proform gear reduction starter at the moment (rated at 1.4 KW) which replaced a Summit Pro-torque unit; both spin the 582/588" at 175 rpm plus. However, subjectively I get some variation in cranking speed which is to be expected.

I also use the older style Aeromotive Fuel pump controller driven by the EMS-Pro's fuel pump output. I disconnected the RPM input when we first converted to the EMS-pro as I didn't want to try and tune around the drop inpressure the reduced supply voltage would cause. The pump has been fine since '07. (not so the MSD alternator, but I digress) I used to also drive an MSD tach signal box for the factory tach which worked fine of that same tach out circuit. I removed it back when we were chasing tach signal noise. It wasn't the problem but I never got around to putting it back.

I get the two LED's lighting off smoothly as you describe in your plugless cranking test during cranking on mine. My missing tooth is set as the seventh tooth or 70* before TDC with the trigger Angle a set at 64. It started even with much lower cranking speeds when the alternator had died and i was on battery only towards the end of Monday's debacle.

Given my recent issues with fatigued connections I'd recheck all of those. My bad sensor signal wire didn't manifest until we hit the rev limiter on the engine dyno. Go figure.

85
I don't think the oil pan is the issue, certainly not at this level of difference. As to the water pressure or not, Drag Week cars are street cars first race cars second as they have to live through a 1000 plus miles of highways, backroads, freeway, in town traffic and then make a few passes at each track and then pack up and do it again. A proprtly functioning cooling system is table stakes and that means running a pressurized system to keep down hot spots that become detonation points and ensuring the engines ring seal and associated components stay in top shape through the drives.

It also means ease of service which makes running coolants like the Evan's stuff cost prohibitive and complex if you have to pull the motor down during the event on the side of the road. The more stuff that can be easily replicated, replaced or repaired the better.

86
Jay, sorry for the delay, its been almost as crazy here as it has been on your end. I'm shipping toda.

Bill

87
Jay, I'd give a X2 on the dry sump, or even an external wet sump/vacuum like the Peterson set-up I run. My pan is a fornt sump "T" style Canton road race pan with a windage scren I added, but in the bck the screen practically lays on the pan bottom, not ideal but it clears the steering linkage and the brace that crosses over form the lower control arm mounts.

The big benefit is no distributor oil pump drive issues, full scraper and screen, but less plumbing.

I think you've done incredible work to date and we look forward to seeing the new car. I think you'll be more than competive even with the 510. I'm glad I won't be in Modified N/A.

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